It's coming home

[Gavster]

What we really need is to let go of the idea that our men's national team is entitled to win a major tournament. Everything I see about English football appears to be predicated on a certain level of arrogance, coming from the mindset that if we rearrange the manager and team into an eternally elusive configuration, then we will inevitably win.

The reality is that we're second-rate underdogs who once managed a fluke win in a big tournament and our playing style is no match to the serial winners of the big tournaments.

[integrale_evo]

I don’t watch much football, I don’t really enjoy it, but I know that the england team is always massively over hyped (obviously I have no idea what it’s like for other teams in other countries) Sure, the current team has played better as a team than I can remember, but it’s still very safe and boring football which gets show up pretty quickly as soon as we’re against anyone with any spark or flair.

Would everyone have been so positive about Southgate’s style if we’d come up against someone decent earlier on? It always felt like we’d kind of lucked our way through.

[duncs500]

The reality is that we're second-rate underdogs who once managed a fluke win in a big tournament and our playing style is no match to the serial winners of the big tournaments.

I'm not sure I really agree, we have had some really strong squads over the years. I don't think anyone should expect us to win, but I don't see us as having any real reason to think we should have a lesser chance than Spain, France or Germany in terms of our football infrastructure and players, and all of those teams have had plenty of success in my lifetime, unlike England.

There are reasons for that of course, but they are structural and management related rather than because we don't have players with that level of ability.

We got left behind by France and their creation of Clairefontaine (opened 1988, won WC 1998), but now we have an equivalent facility our success since 2018 is probably as much a product of that as anything else (opened 2012). I think with the strength of our league and St George's Park, we should absolutely be considered a tier 1 nation in terms of structure and player pool.

Of course, in any given tournament you give yourself the best tools, but you still need a bit of luck. So there's no guarantees out there, but we should believe we can compete with the other international powerhouses (who also go out in the first round occasionally!).

[Rich B]

Fuck me, English football fans are utterly delusional. From the BBC website:

“Like football, Gareth was the assist and now the new manager will get the win!”

There’s a small chance they will improve, but a far larger chance they will perform worse at the next major tournament under a new manager. Boils my piss that these people can’t see how Southgate is the best manager we’ve had in recent decades.

or were they the best players and Southgate's odd strategy was holding them back? I don't know enough about football to have a valid judgement.

But, There were vast amounts of Sundays game where Williams was sat in space just outside the 18 yard box because of the formation England chose - even my 6 year old boy watching his first full match kept pointing out "number 17 is all on his own" - it led to the first goal.

Kane starting every time despite not actually doing anything.

Etc...

[Swervin_Mervin]

The reality is that we're second-rate underdogs who once managed a fluke win in a big tournament and our playing style is no match to the serial winners of the big tournaments.

I'm not sure I really agree, we have had some really strong squads over the years. I don't think anyone should expect us to win, but I don't see us as having any real reason to think we should have a lesser chance than Spain, France or Germany in terms of our football infrastructure and players, and all of those teams have had plenty of success in my lifetime, unlike England.

There are reasons for that of course, but they are structural and management related rather than because we don't have players with that level of ability.

We got left behind by France and their creation of Clairefontaine (opened 1988, won WC 1998), but now we have an equivalent facility our success since 2018 is probably as much a product of that as anything else (opened 2012). I think with the strength of our league and St George's Park, we should absolutely be considered a tier 1 nation in terms of structure and player pool.

Of course, in any given tournament you give yourself the best tools, but you still need a bit of luck. So there's no guarantees out there, but we should believe we can compete with the other international powerhouses (who also go out in the first round occasionally!).

What Duncs said. This current squad is arguably one of the best ever and I'm sure a lot of that is down to the work that's been done in terms of national facilities etc. And Southgate has played his role in that and turning around the results, in spite of the style of the performances. But I do think that his naturally conservative nature would only ever have taken us so far.

[jamcg]

Southgate vs previous tournaments

[integrale_evo]

Could have got to the final in 96 if he didn’t miss his penalty.

Just sayin

[V8Granite]

Having 2 boys with no interest in football is one of my greatest joys.
No football parents, no weekends used up, no shouty mums, no pretending to like football.

Dave!

[Rich B]

Could have got to the final in 96 if he didn’t miss his penalty.

Just sayin