Bye Bye Sunak..

[ZedLeg]

Hey look, Sunak is saying they won't do things they never agreed to do and have already repeatedly ruled out, as if it's something they're about to start fighting in the trenches about.



Fucking pathetic.

Between this and Rupert Murdoch's retirement statement, Novara Media's news update last night was a riot

[dinny_g]

The French are proposing banning all internal flights for example.

Have banned short haul flights

https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/12/ ... -proposals

[GG.]

The French are proposing banning all internal flights for example.

Have banned short haul flights

https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/12/ ... -proposals

Its the kind of stupid thing we'd follow forgetting we don't have the TGV...

[Beany]

I could have done South London.

I don't remember you applying for a visa to stay in the socialist republic of South London. Where were you?

I'm in Leeds area, but I was visiting a friend in Herts, and a work colleague needed their laptop sorting out so I did herts to south london, back to leeds

[jamcg]

The French are proposing banning all internal flights for example.

Have banned short haul flights

https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/12/ ... -proposals

Its the kind of stupid thing we'd follow forgetting no one can afford to use the expensive slow arse unreliable constantly on strike trains that often...

Fixed that for you

[dinny_g]

Because we sold them to German and French train companies who charge us a fortune to basically subsidise cheap travel in France and Germany

Good one Tories… thanks..,

[Swervin_Mervin]

Have banned short haul flights

https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/12/ ... -proposals

Its the kind of stupid thing we'd follow forgetting no one can afford to use the expensive slow arse unreliable constantly on strike trains that often...

Fixed that for you

And TOCs that are rewarded for failure - Avanti have been awarded the WCML contract this last week despite the utter shite that they've been delivering pretty much since they took it on from Virgin.

[Swervin_Mervin]

Because we sold them to German and French train companies who charge us a fortune to basically subsidise cheap travel in France and Germany

Good one Tories… thanks..,

Well, in the case of Avanti they're 70% FirstGroup (British) and 30% Trenitalia. But yeah, foreign privately owned* infrastructure isn't generally a great idea.

*I use that term loosely wrt TOCs

[Mito Man]

See also the Chunnel, ferries and the fishy stuff which was going on with EDF recently. Thames Water too.
I guess with ever increasing debt all you can do is sell...

[Beany]

It's almost like trying to run mainline public services for profit is a fucking idiotic idea that never works, as all you end up with service suffering to maintain profit and shareholder value.

I'm not saying we should go full communism, but running public services at a minor loss should just be an acceptable cost of having decent public services at a reasonable price in a modern society, as opposed to laughably expensive, utterly shit public services so that a few dozen execs can ensure they get their six and seven figure bonuses.

[Swervin_Mervin]

It's almost like trying to run mainline public services for profit is a fucking idiotic idea that never works, as all you end up with service suffering to maintain profit and shareholder value.

I'm not saying we should go full communism, but running public services at a minor loss should just be an acceptable cost of having decent public services at a reasonable price in a modern society, as opposed to laughably expensive, utterly shit public services so that a few dozen execs can ensure they get their six and seven figure bonuses.

Word.

Ian Hislop did an interesting series a few years ago on the history of rail. One of the issues raised in that was that you simply cannot run rail services to an acceptable standard that will return a profit. You just have to take it on the chin that some things just cost the public purse. The trouble in this country is that our public sector is woefully inefficient so I'm not wholly convinced it would be much better or cheaper under public ownership.

[Beany]

It would still be shit, but at least there wouldn't be rapacious lining of pockets at the executive level*, which is what really grinds my fucking gears.

Oh, water leaks everywhere? Let me worry about that from the second pool I've built for my mansion, etc.


*edit: At least, not the same extent

[Swervin_Mervin]

It would still be shit, but at least there wouldn't be rapacious lining of pockets at the executive level*, which is what really grinds my fucking gears.

Oh, water leaks everywhere? Let me worry about that from the second pool I've built for my mansion, etc.


*edit: At least, not the same extent

[Jobbo]

It's almost like trying to run mainline public services for profit is a fucking idiotic idea that never works, as all you end up with service suffering to maintain profit and shareholder value.

I'm not saying we should go full communism, but running public services at a minor loss should just be an acceptable cost of having decent public services at a reasonable price in a modern society, as opposed to laughably expensive, utterly shit public services so that a few dozen execs can ensure they get their six and seven figure bonuses.

Word.

Ian Hislop did an interesting series a few years ago on the history of rail. One of the issues raised in that was that you simply cannot run rail services to an acceptable standard that will return a profit. You just have to take it on the chin that some things just cost the public purse. The trouble in this country is that our public sector is woefully inefficient so I'm not wholly convinced it would be much better or cheaper under public ownership.

If it doesn’t make a profit, why would any private company take it on at all? In which case to offer the service, you have to either keep it publicly owned or give public money to a private organisation for the shareholders to make profits. The latter just looks dodgy.

[GG.]

It's almost like trying to run mainline public services for profit is a fucking idiotic idea that never works, as all you end up with service suffering to maintain profit and shareholder value.

I'm not saying we should go full communism, but running public services at a minor loss should just be an acceptable cost of having decent public services at a reasonable price in a modern society, as opposed to laughably expensive, utterly shit public services so that a few dozen execs can ensure they get their six and seven figure bonuses.

Word.

Ian Hislop did an interesting series a few years ago on the history of rail. One of the issues raised in that was that you simply cannot run rail services to an acceptable standard that will return a profit. You just have to take it on the chin that some things just cost the public purse. The trouble in this country is that our public sector is woefully inefficient so I'm not wholly convinced it would be much better or cheaper under public ownership.

If it doesn’t make a profit, why would any private company take it on at all? In which case to offer the service, you have to either keep it publicly owned or give public money to a private organisation for the shareholders to make profits. The latter just looks dodgy.

See wind farms and virtually all forms of green energy (including nuclear). Problem is a lot of the infra development you need for this stuff needs skills that are more readily available in the private sector / would need to be outsourced if it was publicly owned anway. Basically there's no easy solution but we seem to have the worst of both worlds at the moment.

[Swervin_Mervin]

It's almost like trying to run mainline public services for profit is a fucking idiotic idea that never works, as all you end up with service suffering to maintain profit and shareholder value.

I'm not saying we should go full communism, but running public services at a minor loss should just be an acceptable cost of having decent public services at a reasonable price in a modern society, as opposed to laughably expensive, utterly shit public services so that a few dozen execs can ensure they get their six and seven figure bonuses.

Word.

Ian Hislop did an interesting series a few years ago on the history of rail. One of the issues raised in that was that you simply cannot run rail services to an acceptable standard that will return a profit. You just have to take it on the chin that some things just cost the public purse. The trouble in this country is that our public sector is woefully inefficient so I'm not wholly convinced it would be much better or cheaper under public ownership.

If it doesn’t make a profit, why would any private company take it on at all? In which case to offer the service, you have to either keep it publicly owned or give public money to a private organisation for the shareholders to make profits. The latter just looks dodgy.

In the case of rail and water (to name 2 current hot potatoes) they take it on because they know they can screw the Level of Service in order to make a profit. And that's before you get into debt loading - I mean how the hell is that allowed to go on with the water companies?

[Mito Man]

Yep, load it up with debt and pay out dividends to the shareholders. Invest the minimum amount possible to keep the business going.

[Jobbo]

I don’t see how monopolies like rail and water can sensibly be held privately, to be honest, but they are. I really don’t think there would be a great objection to renationalising them both.

[jamcg]

It's almost like trying to run mainline public services for profit is a fucking idiotic idea that never works, as all you end up with service suffering to maintain profit and shareholder value.

I'm not saying we should go full communism, but running public services at a minor loss should just be an acceptable cost of having decent public services at a reasonable price in a modern society, as opposed to laughably expensive, utterly shit public services so that a few dozen execs can ensure they get their six and seven figure bonuses.

When national express totally fucked up running the east coast mainline and went bankrupt the government ran it under the banner of the “east coast mainline company”. It ran really well, did a good loyalty scheme for people using it all the time and- actually turned a profit. Then the sold it to virgin who immediately set about fucking it up for everyone who wanted to use it

[jamcg]

I don’t see how monopolies like rail and water can sensibly be held privately, to be honest, but they are. I really don’t think there would be a great objection to renationalising them both.

Especially when the water companies make so much money. Northumbrian water made £188.3million in profit last year, yet they can’t afford to do anything about how much sewerage they shot into the rivers and the sea. But I guess it’s not a problem to the parent companies as they can’t see that all the way from Hong Kong and New York.

This makes stark reading https://northeastbylines.co.uk/shocking ... 021-alone/