Potholes?

[NotoriousREV]

The government wants them to die: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47456004

My anecdotal experience is that none of the potholes I encounter on my commute appear to be at the site of previous works. My problem with utility contractor works is that they don’t bother to level the surface properly. Near me there’s a very twisty bit of road under trees where they dug a trench in the middle of one of the lanes. When they filled it in, it’s like a washboard surface. In a car, it’s no problem because your wheels are either side of it. On a bike, you either have to restrict yourself to a very narrow strip of useable tarmac, or have your teeth vibrated out. I reported it to the council but never got a response. I even offered to take someone as a pillion so that they could fully understand the issue.

[Simon]

Yeah, saw that. Near me there have been 3 sets of roadworks recently, 2 of which I think are for services for new private dwellings. When one of the roadworks finished last week they'd filled the trench (across the width of the road) so high that it's almost like a mini 'car park' speed hump. On a 40mph road!

I don't think it's just about lengthening the guarantee that a contractor applies to works, but the quality and standard of those works in the first place. Maybe the top surface works should be contracted back to the local council/highways agency as appropriate (with payment) so that a 'proper' finish can be applied, rather than whatever 20 minute job the contractors feel is 'good enough'.

[Jobbo]

I had no idea that the repairs were guaranteed for 2 years currently - I don't think I've ever been aware of a utility company or their contractor fixing a pothole. They only ever seem to be fixed by the local highways people, badly with a lump of tarmac.

It's not just that the contractors don't level the surface properly; they seem not to compact the ground underneath when they put it back so the road gradually sinks. That might not count as a pothole if the surface isn't broken but it's just as much of a problem.

Anyway, I wholeheartedly agree that utility companies etc should be liable for the repair of the road up to a proper standard; but if the current rules aren't enforced what difference will this make?

[GG.]

I even offered to take someone as a pillion so that they could fully understand the issue.

Given that I saw recent TfL publications giving pollution breakdowns refer to articulated lorries as "arctics", I'd be suprised if they even knew what you were talking about.

I actually looked up the etymology of "pillion" as clearly it bears no straightforward meaning in English and it seems it is originally from the Scots Gaellic for animal pelt or "little pad" and a horse riding term, hence the secondary saddle or seat behind the rider.

Anyway, slightly spooky reading this thread as I noted several new potholes walking from the tube just this morning and was thinking about how shit the roads are in this country, even right in the heart of the city which has much more money lavished on it than most other areas.

[Mito Man]

I was just thinking how the roads from mid 2018 till now have been in the best condition since I’ve started driving. There’s actually no potholes on the routes that I take.

[Gwaredd]

I've no idea why potholes appear. I alway put it down to the shitty scrape & drop technique used, where they litterally scrape the old road surface with a big machine, slather on some hot tar & drop a load of stones on it, then leave the 20mph loose chippings signs up for longer than the road surface lasts.

However, there's a new housing estate being built near me & they had to build an entirely new bit of road for it. It was nice black tarmac & was billiard smooth - done properly I thought. However, it lasted 6 months before potholes started to appear & they qickly slapped up 'temporary road surface' signs.

It has to be down to poor prep and, or, poor materials used. Has to be.

[Swervin_Mervin]

Increasing the guarantee period won't make a blind bit of difference - Highway Authorities don't have the resources to follow up failures and chase the Stats companies to go back out and fix them. I suspect there's also a lack of will to go through the appropriate legal channels to force them, again due to limited resources.

What's actually needed is a wholesale shift forcing utility companies to stop doing simple trench reinstatements to instead doing half or full width structural patch repairs. They're the only repairs that have any longevity.

Interestingly, around here we've noticed that Cheshire East seem to have their game back on - they're taking the approach on the worst roads of doing the structural patch repairs first, and then coming back a few months down the line to then do carriageway resurfacing. All the other Authority areas I pass through are fecking hopeless though. And sadly a lot of the experienced Works Dept guys were forced to take retirement when the works were outsourced to the likes of Amey, and now that some Authorities are taking the Works Depts back in house, the knowledge has left the industry.

[Swervin_Mervin]

Yeah, saw that. Near me there have been 3 sets of roadworks recently, 2 of which I think are for services for new private dwellings. When one of the roadworks finished last week they'd filled the trench (across the width of the road) so high that it's almost like a mini 'car park' speed hump. On a 40mph road!

That's the cheat's approach to doing it. The idea being that over time the reinstatement will be compressed back to level by the traffic running over it. On narrow trench reinstatements it's actually quite difficult to do the proper compaction of the sub-base material, due to the limited width. Hence why proper structural patch repairs are infinitely better.

[NotoriousREV]

Merv, interesting you say that about Cheshire East, on my commute to work, where we first hit Warrington's roads rather than Halton's (I know they're not Cheshire East but it does show different authorities are taking different approaches), they've just done a lovely resurfacing job eliminating some potholes that meant I could only turn right from one of 2 lanes on my bike safely. We'll see how long it lasts.

[Nefarious]

I don't know if things are different up here but city and suburban roads are pretty bad.

The routine seems to be:
Council reluctantly agrees that a hole needs filling
Council sends their pet contractor to repair
Contractor quickly fills with loose tarmac and stones and declares job done
Next cold snap/frost all the holes repaired in the last 6 months all break up
People report "new" holes, but the council fights the people reporting rather than the contractor (frequently using the defence that its been recently repaired)
Some people win their legal fights after 6 months or so, and the council reluctantly agrees that some holes need filling
Rinse and repeat

I think the key parts of this are "pet contractor" and the council's preference to deny the problem rather than squeeze the contractor for a better repair.

[Nefarious]

On a related note - I understand that elsewhere in the world, contractors are required to "rent" the road while works are undertaken. Obviously this means that contract prices are higher (although the extra ends up back with the council), but there is a clear incentive for the contractor to get the job done and foxtrot oscar ASAP.

[Nefarious]

[integrale_evo]

I've noticed actual holes seem to be getting repaired quicker than usual, even on really minor rural roads. However, the overall surface on most roads seems to be worse than ever.

[Gwaredd]

Round our way, it's not been deemed the local Parish council's job to fill rural potholes, so an old retiree goes round with a bag of repair muck, slaps it in the hole & drives over it a few times with his Kia Piccanto. Naturally, it doesn't last long.

[Swervin_Mervin]

Round our way, it's not been deemed the local Parish council's job to fill rural potholes, so an old retiree goes round with a bag of repair muck, slaps it in the hole & drives over it a few times with his Kia Piccanto. Naturally, it doesn't last long.

It's never the Parish Council's job.

[Gwaredd]

It shouldn't be, but after speaking to the Parish Council only last week, imagine my suprise when they said it was now being tasked to them as there's no money in the local councils budget to do it anymore, despite our Council tax increasing by £80.00 this year.

[Swervin_Mervin]

It shouldn't be, but after speaking to the Parish Council only last week, imagine my suprise when they said it was now being tasked to them as there's no money in the local councils budget to do it anymore, despite our Council tax increasing by £80.00 this year.

GTFO

[Jobbo]

I was in Cheltenham at the weekend and the worst potholes were directly outside the Council House, where the mayor's car parks. Plenty of awful potholes and broken surfaces elsewhere round town too. This Google Streetview image (should link to the oldest picture from 2009) shows them, then if you cycle through the years you can see they're repaired every year and keep reappearing in the same places. Shame I didn't take a picture in March 2019 because they're appalling now; potential wheel-removers.

https://goo.gl/maps/DDy3NAq6UX92

[JLv3.0]

Gloucestershire roads are some of the worst I've experienced in a first world country.

[V8Granite]

Round my way it’s the roads subsiding. Every couple of years they fix it and it subsides again. I refuse to believe a permanent repair can’t be carried out.

Some 60mph roads are 40 because your head will bounce off the roof otherwise. When it rains heavily some
Patches look like standing water but as a local you know it drops down a foot in the middle of the patch. Quite a scary thing to hit if you aren’t aware.

Dave!