Insomnia

User avatar
JLv3.0
Posts: 4784
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:42 am

Insomnia

Post by JLv3.0 »

Not working has escalated my previous fucked-up sleep pattern into a whole new dimension. Worked yesterday*, worked out, met a mate at his place for dinner and a few beers - home by 11pm.

Slept at 7am. For a solid couple of hours.

FML 😂

* got some part time for my ex-boss - can see how that might be confusing given the opening sentence.
User avatar
Nefarious
Posts: 1016
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:21 pm

Re: Insomnia

Post by Nefarious »

This is your friend:
Image

Saved my life, that shit
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough"
User avatar
JLv3.0
Posts: 4784
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Insomnia

Post by JLv3.0 »

Mate it's the devil! Talk about entering a netherworld of semi-consciousness! But glad it worked for you obvs
User avatar
Marv
Posts: 1684
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:33 pm
Contact:

Re: Insomnia

Post by Marv »

Conversely, my circadian rhythm was spot on during my year off, even with jumping between different time zones.

Think it was because I was waking up when my brain/body wanted to, rather than an alarm forcing me up.
Oui, je suis un motard.
User avatar
JLv3.0
Posts: 4784
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Insomnia

Post by JLv3.0 »

That's the problem - many, many years of crazy work means I just don't get tired when not working. Ah well - drink and tranquillisers to the rescue.
V8Granite
Posts: 5396
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:57 am

Re: Insomnia

Post by V8Granite »

Pah it’s an absolute pain in the butt.

Had problems for years, was in China a year ago and averaged less than 2 hours a night after doing 12hour days. Missus was worried as due to the time zones she finally realised how little sleep I get.

I spoke to someone and they mentioned I’m not switching off after work, too many projects at home, work etc which continuously went through my mind. They to,d me to picture one job and imagine yourself doing, building it and I’d eventually get to sleep.

That didn’t work for many months though.

I need to travel with a masseuse, that may help.

Dave!
User avatar
Simon
Posts: 5505
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:03 pm

Re: Insomnia

Post by Simon »

I think there are two things you need to tackle here.

a) When you're not working you need to keep getting up at 7AM to keep your body rhythm. Else the 'getting up later' and 'going to bed later' circle is a visious one.

b) When you go to bed (at a reasonable time) you need to be both physically AND mentally tired. I find that going out for a ride often isn't enough to make me tired. I actually need to put my mind to work so that I can properly relax in bed.




If all that fails try an asphixiwank.
The artist formerly known as _Who_
User avatar
ZedLeg
Posts: 7925
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:19 pm

Re: Insomnia

Post by ZedLeg »

I’ve had insomnia for years. I can get myself into a routine while I’m working, I usually go to bed at around 1am and wake up at between 5 and 6. It goes to shit when I’m not working though, even just over the weekend if I’m not careful.

Nothing really works for me except strong sleeping pills which I don’t like taking but as long as I don’t drink too much booze or coffee I manage ok.
An absolute unit
drcarlos
Posts: 1419
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:17 am

Re: Insomnia

Post by drcarlos »

Mirtazipine at a very low dose (7.5mg) has effectively banished my insomnia. I just had the problem of my mind racing and trying to plan things every night, the tablets just shut that function down and I can just drift off to sleep. What it can’t do is stop one of the kids throwing up at 3am all over their bed when I have a 7am call before breakfast!

Carl
User avatar
dinny_g
Posts: 6622
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:31 pm

Re: Insomnia

Post by dinny_g »

Fellow sufferer... :cry:

shows itself in various ways but the worst is when I'll go to bed, tired and ready for sleep - I'll drift off easily enough but then will wake, 30 to 45 mins later, now slightly refreshed. The Powernap then means I can't get back off to sleep so I'll stare at the ceiling until 3 or 4 in the morning...

I know all of my sleep problems are psychological through, rather than physical...
JLv3.0 wrote: Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:26 pm I say this rarely Dave, but listen to Dinny because he's right.
Rich B wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 1:57 pm but Dinny was right…
User avatar
Nefarious
Posts: 1016
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:21 pm

Re: Insomnia

Post by Nefarious »

JLv3.0 wrote: Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:24 pm Mate it's the devil! Talk about entering a netherworld of semi-consciousness! But glad it worked for you obvs
Ok, that was a bit of flippant post to throw up and walk away from.

To give you a short version of my insomnia story - back in 2012 some bad shit happened, and I simply stopped being able to sleep. I would crash through exhaustion but then be wide awake <1 hour later. After a few weeks of never getting more than 1 hour, I was a total mess - paranoid, panic attacks every day, fucked cognitive function etc. At that point, half the problem was the lack of sleep was spiking my adrenaline, and the whole thing was a becoming a self-fulfilling cycle.
First things I tried were tranqs - Zopiclone and Diazapam (not at the same time ;) ). On those, I'd get maybe 2-3 hours sleep, but wake up in a semi-dream state, which could lead to even worse panic attacks, as I couldn't always differentiate between reality and dream hallucinations.
I went through all the meditation, self-hypnosis crap. Some was partially useful (in that it at least provides a distraction strategy when you're staring at the ceiling at 2am), but TBH by the time I was trying it, there were some serious chemical problems going on that no amount of breathing and counting were ever going to solve.
My GP (whose response to my complaints of virtually constant suicidal thoughts was to tell me to "man up" :shock: ) sent my off for CBT (not before 12 more weeks of this shite). What a complete waste of everyone's time! I had to spend a hour a week listening to a 19 year old psychology undergraduate tell me how I need to "break my problems down into manageable chunks" and "think them through logically" (I was working as an senior financial analyst at the time!).
So, that's where the melatonin came in - a friend gave me a bottle of 5mg caps. That was the start of the return back to semi-normality. I think I took tablets for the first four nights, and managed 4, then 5, then 6 hours sleep. Doesn't sound like much, but after such a long time in the desert, the first drink of water was a massive, massive relief. Basically, I went on to use them to enforce a "no 2 bad nights" rule - if I had one bad night, I would definitely dose myself the second night to make sure I never got back to the cycle of massive overtiredness perpetuating total insomnia.
Personally, I never found them too bad in terms of the "netherworld" - certainly far less bad than the tranqs, and nothing a strong cup of morning coffee couldn't sort. I did occasionally find they made me wake up horny as fuck, but that's a different story ;)
So, I honestly say they saved my life, but mostly by breaking the cycle, and then subsequently being a psychological crutch (the safety of knowing they were on my bedside table, even if I didn't take them).
The other drug which I thought played a pivitol role in the recovery was tryptophan (although possibly because my specific problem was down to having run my serotonin levels so low). I only started taking them once the sleep patterns were back to a slightly-precarious 4-5 hours *most* nights, but found one before bed would pretty much guarantee a decent night's sleep, but more importantly, a much more "together" outlook when I woke (which in turn gave me increased ability to internally manage my anxieties). Highly recommended, and no side-effects to speak of if its not the right thing.
Oh, and while I'm telling the story, it's worth saying that the traditional crap they tell you *is* worth doing, even if no one element will be the panacea to solve the problem so - cut down (or out) the booze (it knocks you out, but acts as a stimulant 4 hours later); declutter and simplify your bedroom; get rid of tellies, tablets, phones etc in the bedroom (blue light thing, as well as just general stimulation); sex before bed; lower bedroom temperature 1-2 degrees below what you think is ideally comfy; always get up and do something else if you're awake for more than 15 minutes, and don't try and come back for at least 30 minutes; and, above all, make your own bed *the comfiest place in the goddamn world*.

Here endeth the lesson, but I guess the take-away advice is "don't ignore it". Do whatever you can, whatever works for you, to solve the problem on a night by night basis (in my case it was the melatonin), and never get to a point where the fatigue from insomnia is becoming a major cause of ongoing insomnia.
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough"
User avatar
JLv3.0
Posts: 4784
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Insomnia

Post by JLv3.0 »

Christ Neil, hell of a post and thanks for sharing.

The netherworld of which I spoke of on melatonin wasn't upon awakening - it was this sort of weird half-asleep-but-still-half-awake paralysis state that was way worse than being awake. That said, I took it at a time when I was all over the bloody place, so shouldn't have expected miracles.

I feel a little guilty for starting this thread, seeing what some of you lot have put up with and continue to put up with. I'm just a shit sleeper, end of story really. And lucky enough that if and when it does hit, I either just wait it out, or sleep in (even when I was working - figuring I'd be fucking useless if I did drag my arse into the office) or get up and crack on with shit.

Although I must admit last night I had a couple of beers and two Nyquil and slept for 7 hours, and it was heavenly.
User avatar
McSwede
Posts: 3307
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:04 pm

Re: Insomnia

Post by McSwede »

Blimey Nef that's some difficult shit!

I'm in a cycle of waking up every morning about 5am and unable to get back to sleep. I shouldn't complain too much but missing those couple of hours a night is becoming very tiresome and making me short tempered and quick to snap at people, especially the wife and daughter.
User avatar
ste
Posts: 877
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:16 pm

Re: Insomnia

Post by ste »

Top post Nef.

I'm lucky in that if I get in bed and lie down I'm asleep within minutes. However I definitely drink too much though to self medicate. I also often won't go to bed until 2 - 3 am and will be up just after 6 for work. Without an alarm clock I'd sleep through until midday easily though.
User avatar
JLv3.0
Posts: 4784
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Insomnia

Post by JLv3.0 »

Yep, booze just makes me stay awake so I can drink more booze :lol: I've always thought that self-medication thing, i.e. drinking to fall asleep, is nonsense anyway.

Are boozers full of snoozing punters come chucking out time? Are they bollocks.
User avatar
Beany
Posts: 8080
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:27 pm

Re: Insomnia

Post by Beany »

ste wrote: Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:56 am Top post Nef.

I'm lucky in that if I get in bed and lie down I'm asleep within minutes. However I definitely drink too much though to self medicate. I also often won't go to bed until 2 - 3 am and will be up just after 6 for work. Without an alarm clock I'd sleep through until midday easily though.
I'm bad for this too, although normally because I follow the advice of waiting till I'm tired before gong to bed - I'm normally not yawning till 1am.

I'm finding citalopram is helping with that a bit, although that's mainly as a mood stabilizer rather than for the sleep specifically; I'm less anxious so I tend to sleep a bit better.
User avatar
ste
Posts: 877
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:16 pm

Re: Insomnia

Post by ste »

JLv3.0 wrote: Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:20 pm Yep, booze just makes me stay awake so I can drink more booze :lol: I've always thought that self-medication thing, i.e. drinking to fall asleep, is nonsense anyway.

Are boozers full of snoozing punters come chucking out time? Are they bollocks.
No you misunderstand. The self medicating isn't to make me sleepy, it's so that I can deal with other shit and I don't kill somebody. The staying up late is somethign I've always done.

However I was more speculating on whether I'd drop off so quickly if i went to bed sober. Not sure.
User avatar
Nefarious
Posts: 1016
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:21 pm

Re: Insomnia

Post by Nefarious »

ste wrote: Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:52 pm However I was more speculating on whether I'd drop off so quickly if i went to bed sober. Not sure.
I think the received wisdom is that it depends how much you regularly drink.
If you're only an occasional drinker, then alcohol follows it's clinical profile - I.e. it's primarily a depressive, so, like for like, will make you sleepier, BUT once it starts to leave your system 4-6 hours later, you'll be left with a stimulant effect from all the stuff your body's been doing to try to keep you working despite the effects of a depressive.
If you're a heavier/more regular drinker, the effects both ways are less pronounced, and in fact you can have a more noticeable stimulant effect along with the initial drink (your body is better prepared to try to counter the effects early). That, in turn, means that you'll get less stimulant effect later on (I.e. are less likely to wake when the booze wears off)
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough"
User avatar
JLv3.0
Posts: 4784
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Insomnia

Post by JLv3.0 »

ste wrote: Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:52 pm
JLv3.0 wrote: Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:20 pm Yep, booze just makes me stay awake so I can drink more booze :lol: I've always thought that self-medication thing, i.e. drinking to fall asleep, is nonsense anyway.

Are boozers full of snoozing punters come chucking out time? Are they bollocks.
No you misunderstand. The self medicating isn't to make me sleepy, it's so that I can deal with other shit and I don't kill somebody. The staying up late is somethign I've always done.

However I was more speculating on whether I'd drop off so quickly if i went to bed sober. Not sure.
Mate it wasn't targeted at you at all! More the non-insomniacs and their 'advice' 😂
User avatar
integrale_evo
Posts: 5450
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:58 pm

Re: Insomnia

Post by integrale_evo »

Booze doesn't make me tired it makes the room spin and me not dare shut my eyes in case the chunderbus visits. And then when I do fall asleep usually wake up far earlier than I usually would gasping for water.

I rarely struggle to get a decent nights sleep, but have developed a habit of needing absolute silence before I will drift off, so wear earplugs most nights.

Natural body clock wants me to go to bed between 2 and 3am and wake between 9 and 10. Perfect on late shift weeks but end up getting about 4.5hours on early weeks and constantly feel groggy and tired with no energy to do anything after work.
Cheers, Harry
Post Reply