Westfield

[240PP]

Yep..

https://westfield-sportscars.co.uk/

[nuttinnew]

[Marv]

That's a real shame

[mik]

Aw pish.

[IanF]

Crikey! Still, can’t remember anything coming out recently so not unexpected but still a shame.

[dan]

That's a real shame

It kind of is and I feel for all the bods that work there, but at the same time I never would have bought one and I bet you wouldn't either

[Nefarious]

I never would have bought one and I bet you wouldn't either

Well...

[ZedLeg]

How's your Westfield doing Nef? Still doing the aero experiments?

[Jobbo]

Sad, but I'd always have bought a lesser spec Caterham than a Westfield so I'm not surprised. They've been going a long time but which millennials are going to want to build their own fibreglass Caterham copy in the 2020s?

[Nefarious]

How's your Westfield doing Nef? Still doing the aero experiments?

All hunky dorry, but it hasn't been out in a while. It had a couple of weeks TLC to renew some sensors, fix an oil leak, and address a couple of other niggles, but then I got distracted by racecar stuff and haven't had it out since! I think that was 8 months ago!

Aero project-wise - the latest stage is a little stuck on 2 fronts - firstly the DRS. It's all made, but the central locking actuators I was using aren't strong enough, and I haven't managed to find anything electric that's got the right combination of force, throw and speed. I started looking at doing something with pneumatics, but don't really want to have to add a compressor, so thinking about some kind of vacuum accumulator that works of manifold pressure (vacuum also has the advantage of being dry so it doesn't rust internally like regular pneumatics). I also considered doing something with hydraulics, tapping into the engine oil system (3+ bar of perfectly usable pressure), but my in-build stupidity warning chip isn't entirely comfortable with running a long, potentially vulnerable line the length of the car that could piss all the engine's lubricant out in 15 seconds. A bright idea will probably occur to me at 3am one night!

The second sticky bit is the manufacture of some more carbon fibre fins/plates. Specifically ones to better guide air over the tricky rear arch section. They have proved *very* hard to make accurately, even making up mock-ups in ABS. It's a complicated 3D bend, and needs to be 100% accurate. I just haven't been happy enough with my bucks to be willing to invest the time in making them up in CF. Basically, I did it twice, got pissed off, threw it all in a pile in the corner of the workshop and haven't got round to looking at it again!

You have just reminded me though that I *do* have new pieces for the front arches that just need bolting on, so that can be a nice shooting-fish-in-a-barrel job for a day with everything else is fighting back at me!

[ZedLeg]

Not been tempted to go round Andy Forrest's and trace templates for some cardboard aided design?

[jamcg]

How's your Westfield doing Nef? Still doing the aero experiments?

All hunky dorry, but it hasn't been out in a while. It had a couple of weeks TLC to renew some sensors, fix an oil leak, and address a couple of other niggles, but then I got distracted by racecar stuff and haven't had it out since! I think that was 8 months ago!

Aero project-wise - the latest stage is a little stuck on 2 fronts - firstly the DRS. It's all made, but the central locking actuators I was using aren't strong enough, and I haven't managed to find anything electric that's got the right combination of force, throw and speed. I started looking at doing something with pneumatics, but don't really want to have to add a compressor, so thinking about some kind of vacuum accumulator that works of manifold pressure (vacuum also has the advantage of being dry so it doesn't rust internally like regular pneumatics). I also considered doing something with hydraulics, tapping into the engine oil system (3+ bar of perfectly usable pressure), but my in-build stupidity warning chip isn't entirely comfortable with running a long, potentially vulnerable line the length of the car that could piss all the engine's lubricant out in 15 seconds. A bright idea will probably occur to me at 3am one night!

The second sticky bit is the manufacture of some more carbon fibre fins/plates. Specifically ones to better guide air over the tricky rear arch section. They have proved *very* hard to make accurately, even making up mock-ups in ABS. It's a complicated 3D bend, and needs to be 100% accurate. I just haven't been happy enough with my bucks to be willing to invest the time in making them up in CF. Basically, I did it twice, got pissed off, threw it all in a pile in the corner of the workshop and haven't got round to looking at it again!

You have just reminded me though that I *do* have new pieces for the front arches that just need bolting on, so that can be a nice shooting-fish-in-a-barrel job for a day with everything else is fighting back at me!

Electric PAS pump? Can be sited close, easily available parts rather than something custom made and doesn’t need to cost the earth?

[Nefarious]

Zed - Andy's set-up wouldn't suit. He has a million horsepower and doesn't care about drag. Mine is more, errr, shall we say "nuanced"

James - I've been through various thoughts, including various hydraulic pumps, but really really want to avoid adding weight and complication. Yes, I'll probably end up doing something like that, but was just hoping an idea for a nice, neat, elegant solution just popped into my head!

[duncs500]

Good old fashioned F-duct?

[Jobbo]

I've just received a 'breaking news' e-mail telling me about Westfield going into administration. Amazing how slow news can be in this day and age.

[drcarlos]

How's your Westfield doing Nef? Still doing the aero experiments?

All hunky dorry, but it hasn't been out in a while. It had a couple of weeks TLC to renew some sensors, fix an oil leak, and address a couple of other niggles, but then I got distracted by racecar stuff and haven't had it out since! I think that was 8 months ago!

Aero project-wise - the latest stage is a little stuck on 2 fronts - firstly the DRS. It's all made, but the central locking actuators I was using aren't strong enough, and I haven't managed to find anything electric that's got the right combination of force, throw and speed. I started looking at doing something with pneumatics, but don't really want to have to add a compressor, so thinking about some kind of vacuum accumulator that works of manifold pressure (vacuum also has the advantage of being dry so it doesn't rust internally like regular pneumatics). I also considered doing something with hydraulics, tapping into the engine oil system (3+ bar of perfectly usable pressure), but my in-build stupidity warning chip isn't entirely comfortable with running a long, potentially vulnerable line the length of the car that could piss all the engine's lubricant out in 15 seconds. A bright idea will probably occur to me at 3am one night!

The second sticky bit is the manufacture of some more carbon fibre fins/plates. Specifically ones to better guide air over the tricky rear arch section. They have proved *very* hard to make accurately, even making up mock-ups in ABS. It's a complicated 3D bend, and needs to be 100% accurate. I just haven't been happy enough with my bucks to be willing to invest the time in making them up in CF. Basically, I did it twice, got pissed off, threw it all in a pile in the corner of the workshop and haven't got round to looking at it again!

You have just reminded me though that I *do* have new pieces for the front arches that just need bolting on, so that can be a nice shooting-fish-in-a-barrel job for a day with everything else is fighting back at me!

https://bluewireautomotive.com/collecti ... er-systems ??

Lots of force and they are fast from memory, throw might be easier to achieve with a pivot though.

[RobYob]

How's your Westfield doing Nef? Still doing the aero experiments?

I also considered doing something with hydraulics, tapping into the engine oil system (3+ bar of perfectly usable pressure), but my in-build stupidity warning chip isn't entirely comfortable with running a long, potentially vulnerable line the length of the car that could piss all the engine's lubricant out in 15 seconds. A bright idea will probably occur to me at 3am one night!

Hopefully there's an off the shelf hydraulic shut-off valve out there of appropriate size.

Or you could try DIYing one
https://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2008/0185052.html

[Nefarious]

https://bluewireautomotive.com/collecti ... er-systems ??

Lots of force and they are fast from memory, throw might be easier to achieve with a pivot though.

That's very close to what I started with. The little ones aren't strong enough, the big ones are too bulky (unless I remote mount them and use rods to actuate), but the biggest problem is that they're non-latching/holding (i.e. not designed to hold force in the extended position). You can rig them so the motor is kept working to hold them in position, but you'd burn them out very quickly.
I could rig a mechanical latching mechanism to overcome this, but that runs the risk of failing in the open position - i.e. you arrive at a corner expecting downforce, there isn't any, and you end up in the kitty litter.

In general, the electric linear solenoids all run into similar problems - they're fast and (can be) strong, but the force curve is all wrong (i.e. the force diminishes with throw), so they're at their weakest when you need them to be still pretty strong.

[drcarlos]

https://bluewireautomotive.com/collecti ... er-systems ??

Lots of force and they are fast from memory, throw might be easier to achieve with a pivot though.

That's very close to what I started with. The little ones aren't strong enough, the big ones are too bulky (unless I remote mount them and use rods to actuate), but the biggest problem is that they're non-latching/holding (i.e. not designed to hold force in the extended position). You can rig them so the motor is kept working to hold them in position, but you'd burn them out very quickly.
I could rig a mechanical latching mechanism to overcome this, but that runs the risk of failing in the open position - i.e. you arrive at a corner expecting downforce, there isn't any, and you end up in the kitty litter.

In general, the electric linear solenoids all run into similar problems - they're fast and (can be) strong, but the force curve is all wrong (i.e. the force diminishes with throw), so they're at their weakest when you need them to be still pretty strong.

I'd guess that using Neodymium in the magnets instead of Iron Ferrite would fix the size vs bulk issue and probably even give the holding force needed, but it's not going to get around the fact they'd burn out (I never even thought about it having to stay 'actuated' for a time that may cause damage).

It does sound like the pneumatic system would actually suit rather than hydraulic or electric.

[jamcg]

https://shiftec.com/drs/

They make a pneumatic system used in formula Renault, guessing it’ll be mega money though as there’s no asking price

Could you simplify it by having it actuated by an electric motor? Have some sort or ratchet mechanism so it can’t roll back on itself and use a series of linkages to move the wing up and down? As in have a wheel on the end of the motor and a link bar which moves the wing up and down as it rotates