How do you tell a good tyre from a bad one?

[Hates_]

So the Elise came with Toyo TR1s (Not the older T1Rs which are known to be crap) and I can't find much about them regarding whether they are good or not. Realise this sounds utterly stupid, but without driving lots of cars and trying lots of different tyres, how do you jump in a car and tell whether a set of tyres are good or not? Or would someone like me, who's not very fast and probably not pushing their car to the limits ever going to know or feel the difference?

[Sundayjumper]

I'm not entirely (heh) sure either, but if you enjoyed your track day on them, I'd say they're fine ! I have some for my Compact and although I've only used them on one Autosolo, they were fine for that too.

[DeskJockey]

I guess it comes with experience of trying different tyres on the same car and learning how they feel, make the car handle, etc. If you've never driven a car on other tyres, you'll have very little to reference your experience against. But, you can begin to get a feel for how they handle and whether you like how they perform or not. That then becomes your baseline for the next set.

[mik]

Very hard to separate car from tyres, so you are pretty stuffed unless you have points of reference.

Weather helps identify traits. Like snappy responses in cold weather. Or huge reductions in capability when wet. But without advice from others any alternative is always going to be a gamble, and repent your decision at your leisure….

[Matty]

Very hard to separate car from tyres, so you are pretty stuffed unless you have points of reference.

This, TBH - use forums, see what the generally (agreed) consensus is.

I had Advan AD07's fitted to my S2, based on recommendations from SELOC.

[dan]

You've come to the right place of course because thankfully everyone on the internet is an expert

Its subjective to a point and then you need empirical data to help you.

When I bought my first elise is was on the original P Zero's which were shit but also great fun because they had no grip. I worked my way through most of the 'road' tyres that were available as I had no interest in going to semi slicks.

I ran the old T1R's for a while and found them to work well in the wet and give a nice ride, which I realised was down to the very soft sidewalls. I also wiped 80% of the tread off a set on one trackday and found them to not cope very well with being made to slide.

It was only when I changed to a tyre with a stiffer sidewall that I realised the car felt like it had been driving through treacle with the Toyo's on, all of a sudden it was far more responsive and felt like it was on its tippy toes.

I enjoyed AD08's and AD08R's a lot, they were very durable tyres with not too much grip and a great feel. I've not tried the current RS's but i've heard they're good despite the internet suggesting they're not.

[Zonda_]

What's wrong with Toyo T1 Rs? I remember them scoring highly in evo tyre tests and they were standard fit for TVR and others I believe. I used them on many cars and rated them.

[Rich B]

The problem with tyres is there's a lot of factors to try and separate - Temp/weather, age/wear levels, tracking/set up of car, etc...

Some characteristics you can only really learn through doing loads of miles and comparing to different tyres, some are obvious in a few miles.

The super sports on my M2 are painfully obviously a summer tyre. They're shit in the winter at low temps but bloody amazing in the summer - I think the play off is worth it though.

I remember my e46 M3 having a decent brand tyre on it that I thought felt ok, only to be amazed when I swapped them for the OE tyre - but how much of that was how worn the previous ones were.

[Jobbo]

My Elise S2 came from the factory on Bridgestone RE040s. I think they were Lotus specific but they were absolutely fine despite being derided on forums, including Evo’s, at the time. If you’re happy, you’re happy.

[Sundayjumper]

What's wrong with Toyo T1 Rs?

Somebody on the internet didn't like them one time and it's been regurgitated as fact ever since.

[mik]

The super sports on my M2 are painfully obviously a summer tyre. They're shit in the winter at low temps but bloody amazing in the summer - I think the play off is worth it though.

When you replace them with MPS4S you’ll realise you can have your cake and eat it.

[Sundayjumper]

I remember my e46 M3 having a decent brand tyre on it that I thought felt ok, only to be amazed when I swapped them for the OE tyre - but how much of that was how worn the previous ones were.

Good lord, you can't possibly approve of OE tyres, that would imply the manufacturer has done more testing than you have !

[Hates_]

Ok, this thread is making me feel better then!

No point changing my current tyres just because they're not what everyone recommends for the Elise then, especially since I've yet to find any glaring issues, and as they have plenty of life left. When it is time to change, if I go for something different, I'll have a better reference point as to whether they are is better or worse.

[Mito Man]

I’ve only changed tyres twice before they were due because they were so shite.
6 series - RE050 Runflats, and borderline dangerous in the wet as it aquaplaned so easily. The car really felt dated when cornering on cold tyres as it slipped so easily. PS4S were a revelation in every way.

Defender - With this I wasn’t sure if the tyres were crap or the whole car was crap. I had all the suspension changed and it still felt loose and imprecise all over the road. So I changed the OEM Continentals (Cross Contacts IIRC) with some Hankook Dynapros as it was what the spare wheel was and they had really good reviews. Made a bigger transformation than going from Run flats to PS4S on the 6 series.

[dan]

What's wrong with Toyo T1 Rs?

Somebody on the internet didn't like them one time and it's been regurgitated as fact ever since.

They’re an ok budget tyre, but for the reasons I explained only a couple of posts above, not a great tyre for the Elise platform.

[JonMad]

I got given a couple of 15" T1Rs and despite their reputation they did ok, iirc, on an autosolo on the front axle. Or maybe I've just got no ability to understand any tyre-related finesse and really they were crap and I'd have won a trophy if I was on better tyres.

[V8Granite]

I had loads of set of T1Rs on the Focus and the mk1 Golf and they were fantastic, very predictable so I could play more and the price meant the quick wear rate wasn’t too much of an issue.

I tried them on the 500e and they were horrid, just too spongey.

Mito, most people run far too high a tyre pressure on Defenders, which greatly increases how disconnected it can feel as all the suspension bushes have such a high leverage that when the tyre isn’t taking out all those small movements it can feel horrible.

Dave!

[mik]

What's wrong with Toyo T1 Rs?

Somebody on the internet didn't like them one time and it's been regurgitated as fact ever since.

I’ve used them twice. They have strengths and weaknesses.

1. 944S2. Front geo was out when I got the car (caster, camber and toe) so it tramlined badly. Had it corrected, and fitted stiffer 968 lower arm bushes. It was better, but still tramlined to an unacceptable level. I assumed the stiff front yokos (which had been on when the camber was out, so would have been slight “wedges”) would adjust/wear to the new geo but I think they fought it. I put T1R on knowing they were softer walled. Revelation. Zero tramlining. But far less sharp responses - particularly on the front.

2. RX8. Had Oem RE040’s when we got it and they were really snappy in cold and wet conditions. Like an MPSS, but worse. Fitted T1R and then had far more consistent handling. But a far fuzzier front-end in particular.

They aren’t therefore “bad”, but they certainly aren’t the ultimate performance tyre. I’m not surprised to hear from Dan that they struggled on track.

[scotta]

AO52's are epic. Buy them. Be amazed. Prepare to buy more as they dont last long

[dan]

I got given a couple of 15" T1Rs and despite their reputation they did ok, iirc, on an autosolo on the front axle. Or maybe I've just got no ability to understand any tyre-related finesse and really they were crap and I'd have won a trophy if I was on better tyres.

I’m not sure your ability to win a trophy has any relevance to the question of T1R’s on an Elise or am I the only one that actually read the question?

Internet strikes again