OV9

On the rather shaky premise that a Defender and a old-shape Wrangler are probably equally well assembled and have similarly advanced mechanicals (i.e. not at all and prehistoric) think more like 50% loss - yes really. A mate of mine ran a workshop modifying Wranglers and the 200 bhp crank figure was more like 100 bhp at the wheels on the dyno.

There is a towing channel on YouTube where they tow 6 horse horse boxes and other such big stuff. It’s amazing how much some of the dually equipped trucks can tow in America. If you are doing 40mph full throttle in a 450hp diesel pick-up, it seems a bit too portly to me

Towing with a 5th wheel must feel completely different though.

Dave!

JLv3.0 wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:33 am On the rather shaky premise that a Defender and a old-shape Wrangler are probably equally well assembled and have similarly advanced mechanicals (i.e. not at all and prehistoric) think more like 50% loss - yes really. A mate of mine ran a workshop modifying Wranglers and the 200 bhp crank figure was more like 100 bhp at the wheels on the dyno.

I’ve read a 33% measured loss for a V8 petrol with the same gearboxes as mine but I don’t know what axles it had, probably standard Rover axles.

I’m intrigued now so I’ll find a graph from somewhere.

The Humvee went from 230hp to less than 100ho at the tyres.

Dave!

What about an XC90 V8, I believe a certain member of this establishment used to have one.

Not sure if Mr Yu still has his or not, would probably make light work of a car trailer and sound quite nice whilst doing so.

V8Granite wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:46 am I’d say that the drivetrain loss is very optimistic, I think closer to 30% is more likely.

Mine has hit a GPS verifies 86mph but that’s on the governor in top, maybe I had an extra couple of mph with different gearing but not much.

Changing the drivetrain loss to 30% I get 88mph as theoretical top speed. For comparison, plugging in numbers for the Touareg, I get 141mph vs. VW's quoted figure of 144mph. So that part of the calc all feels about right within a couple of percent.

That seems far more likely speed wise.

Dave!

nuttinnew wrote: Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:27 pm https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified ... New&page=1

Foz wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:31 pm

nuttinnew wrote: Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:27 pm https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified ... New&page=1

I can't believe I didn't think of that. It's on my list.

https://www.pistonheads.com/features/ph ... roes/37039

They also did the Touareg with the W12 for a while, but only LHD sadly.

NIce, from someone looking at the SQ7 recently.

As per one of the PH comments on that link, what about https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified ... 9051899048 with a towbar?

Sundayjumper wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:40 pm

Foz wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:31 pm

nuttinnew wrote: Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:27 pm https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified ... New&page=1

I can't believe I didn't think of that. It's on my list.

https://www.pistonheads.com/features/ph ... roes/37039

They also did the Touareg with the W12 for a while, but only LHD sadly.

738ft/lb, that’s ridiculous!

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified ... 4197153774
or
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified ... 9202456899
for £8.5k less from the same dealer, with only the 240bhp and 400lb ft to push you along.

Actually, that's almost exactly half the power of the V12

JLv3.0 wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:33 am On the rather shaky premise that a Defender and a old-shape Wrangler are probably equally well assembled and have similarly advanced mechanicals (i.e. not at all and prehistoric) think more like 50% loss - yes really. A mate of mine ran a workshop modifying Wranglers and the 200 bhp crank figure was more like 100 bhp at the wheels on the dyno.

I could believe that.

I remember being a Wrangler 4.0, made a lot of noise on kickdown but didn't really move.

Foz wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:31 pm

nuttinnew wrote: Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:27 pm https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified ... New&page=1

Wasn’t there a fundamental flaw with the V12 Tdi’s though - 5000 mile service intervals or 2 miles per gallon or summat. IIRC it was little more than a marketing exercise off the back of Le Mans success... R8 first then these???

JonMad wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:11 pm https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified ... 4197153774
or
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified ... 9202456899
for £8.5k less from the same dealer, with only the 240bhp and 400lb ft to push you along.

Actually, that's almost exactly half the power of the V12

Well, the V12 is just two A4 engines cellotaped together.


If rarity (potential costs/aggro) puts you off the V12 but the V6 doesn't have enough oomph, how about this?


https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified ... 500&page=3

If you want a silly engined VAG and a V8 is too small but a V12 is too big, and a normal V10 is not enough, how about a Touareg R50 https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified ... 8080942023

Frankly the Q7 V8 TDI is far more appealing though, and I don't like Q7s. Back to the Allroad BiTDI for me.

Jobbo wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:05 am If you want a silly engined VAG and a V8 is too small but a V12 is too big, and a normal V10 is not enough, how about a Touareg R50 https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified ... 8080942023

Frankly the Q7 V8 TDI is far more appealing though, and I don't like Q7s. Back to the Allroad BiTDI for me.

Would that 2015 Q7 have the Porsche Diesel engine by any chance ?

Nathan wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:42 am

Jobbo wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:05 am If you want a silly engined VAG and a V8 is too small but a V12 is too big, and a normal V10 is not enough, how about a Touareg R50 https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified ... 8080942023

Frankly the Q7 V8 TDI is far more appealing though, and I don't like Q7s. Back to the Allroad BiTDI for me.

Would that 2015 Q7 have the Porsche Diesel engine by any chance ?

I have no idea - I didn't even realise they kept making a V8 TDI that late. This Autocar article from 2009 (when the Q7 was facelifted) says the 4.2 got a power increase, so it may simply be that they kept fitting the same slightly tweaked Audi engine from 2009-2016: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/au ... -v8-tdi-se

ETA: Porsche used the Audi engine anyway, not sure how they modified it themselves so it's possible Porsche's mods made it into the Audi version I guess...

Looks quite subtle compared to a Q7...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified ... 3296420415

Panamera V8 tdi was supposed to be quite special. There was an owner on readers cars in Pistonheads.

Dave!

When did the current panamera appear, 2016 was it?