Trump guilty

[nuttinnew]

[nuttinnew]

[mik]

Predictable, but…

[dinny_g]

I liked this one…

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGeVfs18v/

[Sundayjumper]

Imagine if the level of effort put to Trump to find issues was put to all politicians.

How did they get all the power, does any normal person actually get into power at all ?

Dave!

Dave! - I don’t entirely disagree but where are you getting this pro-Trump whataboutism from ? Serious question. From other forums you hang out on ?

Trump is *nothing* like a normal politician. He’s arguably not even a politician. A multiple bankrupt inherited businessman that bought an election using Russian & other dark money. He’s a moron leading a cult who bafflingly continue to send him money and will vote for him despite everything. Mega donors support him because he’ll give them $bn tax breaks and let them do all the dodgy stuff they want.

American “left” and “right” aren’t like ours. Their whole spectrum is waaay to the right of ours. Don’t fall into the trap of identifying as conservative in the UK (which is perfectly OK, btw, I do) and assuming therefore trump is your guy in the US. I don’t want to invoke Godwin here but that’s where he’s going.

[V8Granite]

I’m not pro trump, I’m just far more believing of him than most politicians. He has no filter, no script writer and whether he does something nasty or good it’s more believable than most others. He is the person who calls you a cunt to your face.

Biden screams all kinds of evil to me and personally I think he is a warmonger. Biden calls you a friend and would then send someone to go through your bins.

I’d be happier with Trump in power than Biden.

I’d be extra happy with a good politician in general but they seem a bit thin on the ground.

Dave!

[Rich B]

I think the opposite of Trump. He's like those twatty bullies who will do something intentionally horrible, then deny and gaslight all day long until the person they are convincing also feels bullied into giving up arguing.

People who back him are "big strong man and the best at what he does, probably the best in the world", and those that don't are "corrupt, probably the most corrupt person ever to have lived."

Did you hear his speech yesterday? It was just whinging and rambling.

[V8Granite]

It was a pitiful speech, I don’t think he is evil though.

I think someone who doesn’t recognise their own grandchild as evil. I genuinely get a very nasty feeling about him and think he will make things worse. The Americans I work with despise him but I work in a Labour type job so that skews things I think.

Preferring one over the other doesn’t mean you want the one to be in power. He is just imo the much less smelly shit to step in.

Dave!

[duncs500]

I feel like Trump genuinely believes he is infallible, that everything he says is right, and that even if a billion people disagree with him they're all wrong. I think he's the worst kind of entitled privileged rich kid psychopath without a shred of empathy for anyone unless it is good for him.

To be fair, I think he is generally as honest as he can be, and would probably like to be more open about how much of a cunt he is, he just needs the power to change the law to allow him to be that way without reprisal first.

He basically wants to be able to create a world where he can do what he wants without challenge, it's highly probable IMO that he has thought about ways to turn the US into a dictatorship. The difference between him and Putin is that I don't think Trump believes in anything more than giving himself complete freedom. People think he wants to MAGA, I think his only concern is making himself great. His big supporters may have to find that out the hard way.

Just my impression on him of course, might be wrong.

[GG.]

The enrichment was getting elected.

Not sure you'd be able to prove causation on that.

Well, he got convicted on all 34 charges. QED.

If we're going with latin then I'd say non sequitur dear boy - it didn't rely on the fact that he got elected to be guilty for this felony (you'd be hard pressed to prove that, without what he did, he would not have been elected).

I should also point out on the 34 charges point, that it is likely a misconception of many that these were 34 different acts. In the broadest sense that could be arguable but if you look at a good number of them, charge 3 will be "invoice dated x" and charge 4 will be "ledger entry in relation to invoice dated x". They run them in parallel in case there is an issue on some of the counts.

A lot of his objections are extremely overblown but some of it does have merit. How does a jury system work where you have a high profile policitican being tried in a state where most of the populace vote for the other side? Would you be happy being tried by a 'jury of your peers' in that instance? I wouldn't.

The problem for the American justice system is that from some of the commentary I've read, it is extremely unusual to try and string together this offence and upgrade it to a felony in the way they have done (i.e. to tie this into electoral law) and potentially without legal precedent. As I think you noted above, they're stretching to find something to do him on. That means the likelihood of being overturned on appeal is significant, discrediting the system even further. That said, its difficult to have any sympathy as he's been flying by the seat of his pants for all his life and eventually something will bring you down if you behave like that.

Will be interesting to see where this goes over the next few months. Will make amusing watching for an outside spectator.

[Sundayjumper]

...I don’t think he is evil though.

He has stated many times that he wants to leave / dismantle NATO, and that he has a plan to end Russia's invasion of Ukraine instantly. Obviously he doesn't but it could only happen by denying Ukraine agency in the matter and letting Putin have the entire country in return for yet another worthless "agreement" from Russia. You're well aware of how Ukrainian citizens will be treated if that happens. You helped out very generously when Gavster & I did that trip to the Poland/Ukraine border. You know what's been happening out there.

That is evil and he's totally on board with it.

[V8Granite]

I don’t have an opinion about n what he wants to do in Ukraine. I do know that the media is very 1 sided and I was sick of seeing Russians evil, Ukrainians good all over the British media.

It’s a shame that there HAS to be a good and evil side to things and people laughing at dead conscripts made it all a bit pathetic to watch, so I steer clear of any conflict news now.

I still think Biden is far worse, I doubt we will ever really find out.

Its ok to not agree with people, we can still all be friends

Dave!

[Sundayjumper]

How does a jury system work where you have a high profile policitican being tried in a state where most of the populace vote for the other side? Would you be happy being tried by a 'jury of your peers' in that instance? I wouldn't.

The crimes were done in NY, the trial gets held in NY. Simple as that. It works the same way here doesn't it ?

And anyway, how are you going to pull together a 'jury of your peers' in this specific case ? There aren't 18 criminally indicted ex-presidents available right now

Trump & his legal team were involved in selecting the jury as per standard procedure. Despite all the nonsense he comes out with claiming otherwise.

Ditto testifying. He declined to testify in his own trial, then claimed the judge wouldn't let him testify.

Ditto advice of counsel defence. He declined to take that route - which could have worked - almost certainly because it means waiving attorney-client privilege and that would be a HUGE can of worms for him if opened. He then claimed the judge wouldn't let him use that defence.

He's a pathological liar. Yet his supporters believe every word of it and keep sending him money to pay his self-inflicted legal bills.

[Sundayjumper]

I do know that the media is very 1 sided and I was sick of seeing Russians evil, Ukrainians good all over the British media.

JFC Dave!, you're not seriously both siding Russia's invasion are you ? You need to get out of whatever echo chamber you're getting that from.

[V8Granite]

I do know that the media is very 1 sided and I was sick of seeing Russians evil, Ukrainians good all over the British media.

JFC Dave!, you're not seriously both siding Russia's invasion are you ? You need to get out of whatever echo chamber you're getting that from.

At what point, in anything I’ve ever written on the subject have I been pro invasion ?

No im going by a good friend who is doing CP work over there.

The invasion is disgusting, should never have happened.

But both sides are doing evil things and both sides have people there who have no reason to be there. You do realise that not wanting people to die is a good thing ? I don’t want Ukrainians to be dying for someone wanting to invade and I don’t want Russians dying because someone wanting to invade.

Laughing at conscripts (notice I didn’t say Russian or Ukrainian) in the media as they are being killed so easily. Do people really think the people inside that APC blown up by a petrol
Bomb and a drone were evil villains all wanting to rape and pillage. Or the only people doing evil things on the battlefield are Russian, it’s a war between Russia and Ukraine, not between the Polly Pocket club and Barbie girl brigade.

FFS this is Pistonheads mk2, don’t want the war to be happening at all = Must be pro Russian.

Dave!

[Gavster]

[V8Granite]

Do Hilary and Bill get a free ride over paedo island

Whatever way you prefer, the memes and short videos that have come out of this are hilarious.

Dave!

[Sundayjumper]

JFC Dave!, you're not seriously both siding Russia's invasion are you ? You need to get out of whatever echo chamber you're getting that from.

At what point, in anything I’ve ever written on the subject have I been pro invasion ?

I didn't say you're pro invasion. You're both siding when it's very obvious whose fault this is, and who can make it stop.

...both sides have people there who have no reason to be there.

Arguably true in a literal context-free way but it's a completely false equivalence.

* Every single Russian soldier, or Russia supporter in Ukraine has no reason to be there.
* Every single Ukrainian in Ukraine has every possible reason, and legal right, to be there.

vs.

* The number of non-Ukrainian Ukraine supporters that have no reason to be there - that you're suggesting is just as bad as around a million* Russian soldiers invading their neighbour - is tiny. Microscopic.

Do you think that that Russia should unconditionally withdraw from Ukraine ? If you can't bring yourself to agree, you are in fact pro-invasion.

And seriously - I'm curious where you're getting these talking points from.



* not entirely sure of that number but they're widely reported to have ~500k dead or seriously injured so far, so I'm going with that plus another 500k still active.

[Sundayjumper]

Do Hilary and Bill get a free ride over paedo island

If there's evidence, bring it on.

However the Republicans are very strong on accusing and finger-pointing, yet somehow never manage to produce any evidence. Ever

[ZedLeg]

I’ll never understand how a man who’s a proven degenerate liar has somehow convinced people he’s an honest politician.

Every accusation levelled at the political “establishment” is equally true of Trump.