Bye bye Starmer

[Rich B]

it's a part of the overall tax receipts this country needs to operate

Normative judgment klaxon

I think you mean it is part of the political choice made in respect of where to raise revenue to meet the level of spending our politicians have decided is necessary.

I always wonder how much of the UK's expenditure I could cut without the general public realising it? I expect it would comfortably be enough to eliminate the need for every tax other than income tax, NICs and VAT. That said - it wouldn't quite work like that as I would re-allocate a lot of the wasted funding to areas with more valid need. Crime, policing, prisons, capital infrastructure. Pay in the NHS would go up (for those remaining...) as part of a co-opted insurance / state funded based system.

ETA: IHT, CGT and SDLT raise a mere 4% of the trillion pounds of tax generated every year. They could be easily eliminated should the desire be there.

Yeah, you could sort a lots of the housing, employment and productivity issues pretty cheaply by putting all those pesky poor and unemployed in workhouses. Hopefully they’ll not live too long either and clog up the hospitals by getting old….

Also, 4% of a trillion pounds is still an eye-watering big amount of money!

[ZedLeg]

Well - people will notice - the people that have money funnelled to them for no productive output. I think that's what Musk said re the federal government - 1/3 can be more gainfully employed elsewhere. I really hope he's successful in this as it will demonstrate to others what can be done - even with ridiculously generous severance packages.

Yeah, he’s talking shite as usual.

[Jobbo]

First, why should it matter how many beneficiaries there are of an estate (though I'm not sure if that is part of your point)? A couple with a few millions in assets on death and one child shouldn't have their estate taxed differently to a similarly wealthy couple who have 4 kids and 16 grandchildren.

But that's my point - it _should_ be treated differently, because we are talking about what people inherit rather than what people leave, and I believe this is more equitable, and it would encourage people to plan to share their wealth more when they pass.

Why should someone who has more kids end up having their estate taxed less than those with fewer? Jacob Rees-Mogg, Boris Johnson et al would be the winners FFS

[Beany]

Well - people will notice - the people that have money funnelled to them for no productive output. I think that's what Musk said re the federal government - 1/3 can be more gainfully employed elsewhere. I really hope he's successful in this as it will demonstrate to others what can be done - even with ridiculously generous severance packages.

Elon Musk? The guy who tried to sack someone with a DO NOT FIRE mark on their HR file, which he had clearly read as he (then subsequently, quite illegally) mocked THEM publicly, claimed they were lying about their disability to do no work, etc.

Notably, the reason for the not firing him is because that persons company was bought wholecloth by twitter for around $100m....

...which the guy was getting paid back in salary in chunks to benefit the tax take of his home nation. Being fired would mean Twitter would have to complete the remainder of the payment of that $100m in a lump sum.

That Elon Musk?

https://www.theregister.com/2023/03/07/ ... ffer_musk/

Yeah, I'm sure he knows exactly what he's doing when it comes to staff management

[ZedLeg]

Haraldur Thorliefson?

I follow him on twitter, seems like a good guy.

ETA should’ve clicked the link

[Mito Man]

Could probably fire every single person working for DEFRA and not notice a thing tbh

[ZedLeg]

Trump thought that, then he had several ecoli outbreaks from unwashed produce.

[Mito Man]

Trump thought that, then he had several ecoli outbreaks from unwashed produce.

Debatable, unless it's being washed in alcohol. ecoli outbreaks happen regardless of political party. Usually it happens when there's heavy rainfall causing wash off of contaminated manure from a nearby farmland to a vegetable patch which is close to harvest. But then you're down to the actual farmers self reporting, which they don't.

[GG.]

The awkward thing is that the more entrenched the bureaucratic blob becomes, the less the efforts of normal responsible people to change the system work at all and you end up with someone reckless stepping in (e.g. Milei for example) to effectively cut things back. Not ideal obviously and a bit of a dangerous path towards justifying anarchic actions to try and reform things (i.e. like Musk at Twitter). Ultimately Twitter fired 80% of its workers and its still there, operating as it did before as far as I can tell.

[Rich B]

The awkward thing is that the more entrenched the bureaucratic blob becomes, the less the efforts of normal responsible people to change the system work at all and you end up with someone reckless stepping in (e.g. Milei for example) to effectively cut things back. Not ideal obviously and a bit of a dangerous path towards justifying anarchic actions to try and reform things (i.e. like Musk at Twitter). Ultimately Twitter fired 80% of its workers and its still there, operating as it did before as far as I can tell.

yeah, it’s only dropped around 75% of its value in that period…

[Mito Man]

Labour might have start cutting some slack and bureaucracy in the planning system if they want to hit their house building targets.

[ZedLeg]

Trump thought that, then he had several ecoli outbreaks from unwashed produce.

Debatable, unless it's being washed in alcohol. ecoli outbreaks happen regardless of political party. Usually it happens when there's heavy rainfall causing wash off of contaminated manure from a nearby farmland to a vegetable patch which is close to harvest. But then you're down to the actual farmers self reporting, which they don't.

I would say that gutting the agency in charge of food safety is rarely a good idea. It’s also the best placed dept to help the countryside economy that everyone agrees is struggling.

I’d say audit and retool the agency as needed rather than cut and burn.

[Jobbo]

The awkward thing is that the more entrenched the bureaucratic blob becomes, the less the efforts of normal responsible people to change the system work at all and you end up with someone reckless stepping in (e.g. Milei for example) to effectively cut things back. Not ideal obviously and a bit of a dangerous path towards justifying anarchic actions to try and reform things (i.e. like Musk at Twitter). Ultimately Twitter fired 80% of its workers and its still there, operating as it did before as far as I can tell.

yeah, it’s only dropped around 75% of its value in that period…

Business valuations don't always work like that unfortunately.

[Broccers]

If we assume that it's not going away, it does seem really stupid that it isn't index linked.

IHT on >£325k in 2009 would be the equivalent of IHT on > £545k today......

Exactly, which is much more 'fair'.

Obviously if you put your stuff in a trust it negates the potential bill but many peoples do not do this or understand the benefit of doing so.

I’m not sure “ignorance” is a great excuse when it comes to managing your own wealth?

If you have many hundreds of thousands of pounds of assets and you’re worried about IHT - then go and see a financial advisor.

Iht is a trap many folk wouldn't expect to experience because of my post above. For a grand you can protect your assets and really isn't complicated.

6 percent have to pay iht? Do me a favour, that's the price of an average house.

[Jobbo]

Exactly, which is much more 'fair'.

Obviously if you put your stuff in a trust it negates the potential bill but many peoples do not do this or understand the benefit of doing so.

I’m not sure “ignorance” is a great excuse when it comes to managing your own wealth?

If you have many hundreds of thousands of pounds of assets and you’re worried about IHT - then go and see a financial advisor.

Iht is a trap many folk wouldn't expect to experience because of my post above. For a grand you can protect your assets and really isn't complicated.

6 percent have to pay iht? Do me a favour, that's the price of an average house.

It's the average price of a house rather than the price of an average house. But more importantly, the majority of houses are lived in by families so probably jointly owned by two people - doubling the IHT allowance to £650k. And there's a specific relief for the family home of up to a further £175k each, so if the only asset is a home up to £1m it wouldn't trigger IHT.

[Broccers]

I’m not sure “ignorance” is a great excuse when it comes to managing your own wealth?

If you have many hundreds of thousands of pounds of assets and you’re worried about IHT - then go and see a financial advisor.

Iht is a trap many folk wouldn't expect to experience because of my post above. For a grand you can protect your assets and really isn't complicated.

6 percent have to pay iht? Do me a favour, that's the price of an average house.

It's the average price of a house rather than the price of an average house. But more importantly, the majority of houses are lived in by families so probably jointly owned by two people - doubling the IHT allowance to £650k. And there's a specific relief for the family home of up to a further £175k each, so if the only asset is a home up to £1m it wouldn't trigger IHT.

I'm aware. One of the things you know as your parents age. However it's still too low.

[ZedLeg]

The average house price in Scotland is £200k.

Housing being broken doesn’t suddenly make another £125k nothing.

[Broccers]

The average house price in Scotland is £200k.

Housing being broken doesn’t suddenly make another £125k nothing.

I would imagine the London crowd have a different view.

The whole estate including pensions soon rack up.

[Broccers]

Yes yes yes I know, it's not going to get a general election.

But my word, look at the numbers growing by 2000 a minute.

Lots of people not happy.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/700143

[Mito Man]

I'm more unhappy about the recent COP meeting. The fact we have island states which depend heavily on tourism now crying about sea levels and wanting compensation is borderline insanity. The fvcking Taliban rocking up for some of that free "climate" money. And China stating they're poor so don't have to contribute. What a troll whilst we march ourselves to further poverty hoping to reduce temperatures by an immeasurable amount whilst giving away money which we don't have.
Heck at this rate we may be able to claim we're one of the poor countries by COP 35 and not have to pay anything.