OV9

ZedLeg wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 12:28 pm Being Ugandan and homophobic doesn’t make it a racial trait dave.

Rich says he was maybe using the wrong word, which is fair enough.

No but it’s a cultural trait.

Dave!

Rich B wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 12:22 pm

ZedLeg wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 12:15 pm How is that racial though?

There are myriad reasons why homosexuality is banned in a lot of countries, I don’t think “because they’re black” is one of them.

yep, I obviously agree with that. I guess I'm wrongly equating the values of a country/continent with the word race.

"culture" or "cultural values" are what you're looking for here. Strong crossover with race & religion, obvs, but not quite the same thing.

V8Granite wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 12:30 pm

ZedLeg wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 12:28 pm Being Ugandan and homophobic doesn’t make it a racial trait dave.

Rich says he was maybe using the wrong word, which is fair enough.

No but it’s a cultural trait.

Dave!

I’d agree with that, worth remembering that the British had a big hand in that culture, both religiously and politically. Catholicism is the biggest religion.

Would have been Muslim before that, and Muslim if Christianity wasn’t involved so homophonic either way.

Homophobia within islam is fairly recent tbh, there’s nothing explicitly homophobic in Muhammad’s teaching.

Fairly recent - so like the 17th century yeah?

V8Granite wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 12:30 pm

ZedLeg wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 12:28 pm Being Ugandan and homophobic doesn’t make it a racial trait dave.

Rich says he was maybe using the wrong word, which is fair enough.

No but it’s a cultural trait.

Dave!

At what point does culture and race align... or diverge for that matter ? Particularly when there is a large geographic areas containing many distinct cultures but a largely singular race where a significant proportion all feel the say way.

I mean is it all valid to say that KKK members in the 50's weren't racist because they were white, they were racist because they were from Kentucky or Tennessee ? I don't think so.

It's a very interesting albeit difficult discussion - what were the views towards homosexuality in Africa before the missionaries arrived. It might be an argument to say, as has been mentioned that it's a Catholic cause.

Then on the other hand how does missionary history align with Slavery history where, while not as dogmatic, many of the attitudes to Homosexuality in the Caribbean, echo that in Africa. Still illegal in Jamaica for example

It is a weird one - you wouldn't call someone who hated Polish people cuturist, you'd call them racist.

I guess that's the beauty of our mixing pot of a language.

Well, maybe xenophobic but I get your point

dinny_g wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 1:36 pm Well, maybe xenophobic but I get your point

bloody Irish with their smart arse responses...

I thought Xenophobic is a wider net rather than targeting people from just one country.

Any of these things are too complex to really say one thing is the cause but it’s fair to say that colonialism and the slave trade had a big hand in fucking up Africa and the Caribbean.

It’s hard to come up with a consensus on how tribal societies dealt with gay and trans people as a lot of it was never written down. There’s never been any evidence that they were treated particularly badly though and some societies positively celebrated them.

Rich B wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 1:34 pm It is a weird one - you wouldn't call someone who hated Polish people cuturist, you'd call them racist.

I guess that's the beauty of our mixing pot of a language.

White people love to accuse other white people of racism.

ZedLeg wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 1:53 pm

Rich B wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 1:34 pm It is a weird one - you wouldn't call someone who hated Polish people cuturist, you'd call them racist.

I guess that's the beauty of our mixing pot of a language.

White people love to accuse other white people of racism.

eh? I literally made up a person! I can change it to two black people if you want?

Rich B wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 1:42 pm

dinny_g wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 1:36 pm Well, maybe xenophobic but I get your point

bloody Irish with their smart arse responses...

Mito Man wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 1:46 pm I thought Xenophobic is a wider net rather than targeting people from just one country.

Xenophobe is typically taken to mean prejudice against other nationalities. The literal greek translation simple means fear of others so it could be taken to be wider but normal usage is such that it is intended to draw a distinction with race.

Rich B wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 1:54 pm

ZedLeg wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 1:53 pm

Rich B wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 1:34 pm It is a weird one - you wouldn't call someone who hated Polish people cuturist, you'd call them racist.

I guess that's the beauty of our mixing pot of a language.

White people love to accuse other white people of racism.

eh? I literally made up a person! I can change it to two black people if you want?

It wasn’t a criticism, more an observation

ZedLeg wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 2:04 pm

Rich B wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 1:54 pm

ZedLeg wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 1:53 pm

White people love to accuse other white people of racism.

eh? I literally made up a person! I can change it to two black people if you want?

It wasn’t a criticism, more an observation

are you the white person you're referring to?

I meant like if you called me a jock, I might go that’s racist. It isn’t though.

It’s not that deep.

At work we just call them Funny Foreign Fuckers.

That could be any race or group of people, it’s just a group doing something together.

Multiculturalism only really works when you don’t get large enough groups able to do their own thing. If you get lots of smaller groups sharing their celebrations, beliefs etc it’s lovely. When the groups are big enough where they can exclude anyone who isn’t already part of the group, it creates shitholes.

Dave!