Bye Bye Sunak..

[ZedLeg]

What are Judeo-Christian values Dave?

It’s a phrase that has even less meaning here than it does in the states.

The home grown christian sects can’t even agree, yet everyone and all of judaism is under one big umbrella?

[V8Granite]

What are Judeo-Christian values Dave?

It’s a phrase that has even less meaning here than it does in the states.

The home grown christian sects can’t even agree, yet everyone and all of judaism is under one big umbrella?

As I don’t hunt around trying to find fault in everyone….

Love thy neighbour, don’t cheat, don’t steal, don’t be a bully.

Everything I was told by my parents and at my C of E school. It really isn’t more complicated than that. It certainly isn’t a Christianity led thing as many parts of Christianity are evil and disgusting. It’s just grouped together like that.

You could call it No Twatting to others and it basically says the same thing.

Dave!

[ZedLeg]

That’s just being decent though, why not say that?

Farage said a very specific phrase that has also been said by all manner of scrotes.

I think you’re being naive to think there isn’t more to it tbh.

[V8Granite]

That’s just being decent though, why not say that?

Farage said a very specific phrase that has also been said by all manner of scrotes.

I think you’re being naive to think there isn’t more to it tbh.

Because in general that’s what his generation sees the country.

If I asked my parents what kind of country this is, they’d say a Christian country. I’d say most non Christian’s would say the same also.

Dave!

[ZedLeg]

He didn’t say christian country though did he.

It’s fascist rhetoric.

Like, Beany has posted links. I don’t know how much clearer we can be.

[V8Granite]

You’re in an echo chamber, I don’t think the guy is going to be great in lots of ways and certainly wouldn’t put a vote his way but I also don’t think he is a Nazi.

Politics brings out the worst in people.

So I’ll stay and be nice to my neighbours and let everyone accuse everyone else of whatever they feel. It’s not much of a choice sadly at the minute.

Dave!

[ZedLeg]

You’re in an echo chamber too Dave.

Honestly, I look forward to the day that people stop voting for far right dickheads because they still smoke and they like a pint.

[V8Granite]

You’re in an echo chamber too Dave.

Honestly, I look forward to the day that people stop voting for far right dickheads because they still smoke and they like a pint.

You do you and I’ll do me, I’m not angry at the world and spewing hate

Dave!

[ZedLeg]

Neither am I?

(Well ignoring when I got kicked from ph )

[dinny_g]

It's a clever type of rhetoric by Farage because while undoubtedly, the Dog Whistle aimed at the mouth frothers, it's phrased in such a way as to appeal to the groups who would say "My wife and I can't walk around Riyadh with no head scarfs scarfs, drinking a can of Stella before enjoying a nice Roast Pork dinner - In your country, we are expected (by Law) to accept YOUR rules so you're "more than welcome" to come here (legally) but you WILL Accept our culture and not force yours onto us" types.

you know, right-hand side of the stage, telegraph types who definately aren't racist because they talk about the Cricket with Sanjay from IT

[ZedLeg]

Exactly Dinny.

[Beany]

Dinny is spot on about the targeting - that's exactly who the 'out loud' part is aimed at. It's the quiet part, the 'judeo christian' part that's the more insidious side.

Just to dip in to explain why the whole 'Judeo Christian' thing is utter bollocks, here's a link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemit ... ed_Kingdom

(TLDR - 13th to 17th century Jews were expelled from and barred from the UK, and after that until quite a lot later, were barred implicitly from holding positions of power by laws only allowing christians to wield authority)

We've never had 'Judeo Christian' values by virtue of the fact that the Jews were never allowed to influence our values, by law, until very recently - mostly post world war two.

Jewish groups aren't generally a fan of the phrase given how it, you know, rather minimalises that. And that was before it was almost exclusively used as a dogwhistle by the far right to co-opt them into their twaddle.

We've always had values based on Christianity, with the last couple of hundred years being more wishy washy agnostic as we've removed the church from the state piece by piece.

I had a much, much longer post here going into the history of the phrase, where it's been used, the justification for it, the targetting of evangelicals in the US with it (who are, as a voting bloc, significantly more racist than the rest of the population, and also have an interest in the jews booting muslims out of Isreael because that conforms to their literal belief in the Rapture, to justify their racism) and how this demonstrates that the only time this phrase is used politically is as a racist dogwhistle, but I realised most of it is common knowledge or will just be ignored, and I've got shit to do today

[Nefarious]

Love thy neighbour, don’t cheat, don’t steal, don’t be a bully.

Everything I was told by my parents and at my C of E school. It really isn’t more complicated than that. It certainly isn’t a Christianity led thing as many parts of Christianity are evil and disgusting. It’s just grouped together like that.

Thing is, Dave, if it were just about being a decent human being, then it wouldn't be an immigration issue, would it? Maybe a moral leadership issue, or at the far end of the scale, a criminal justice issue. So unless you're saying that other races/religions are naturally predisposed to a lack of human decency, cheating, stealing, bullying etc, why would you feel the need to raise the issue in terms of your proposed immigration policy?

[Rich B]

Love thy neighbour, don’t cheat, don’t steal, don’t be a bully.

Everything I was told by my parents and at my C of E school. It really isn’t more complicated than that. It certainly isn’t a Christianity led thing as many parts of Christianity are evil and disgusting. It’s just grouped together like that.

Thing is, Dave, if it were just about being a decent human being, then it wouldn't be an immigration issue, would it? Maybe a moral leadership issue, or at the far end of the scale, a criminal justice issue. So unless you're saying that other races/religions are naturally predisposed to a lack of human decency, cheating, stealing, bullying etc, why would you feel the need to raise the issue in terms of your proposed immigration policy?

To be fair, some other races/religions are naturally disposed to plenty of practices we deem totally unacceptable (both morally and legally).

[ZedLeg]

Which races are predisposed to do things that are illegal rich?

[Rich B]

Which races are predisposed to do things that are illegal rich?

More than half of Africa’s 54 nations prohibit consensual same-sex activity.

[ZedLeg]

How is that racial though?

There are myriad reasons why homosexuality is banned in a lot of countries, I don’t think “because they’re black” is one of them.

[Rich B]

How is that racial though?

There are myriad reasons why homosexuality is banned in a lot of countries, I don’t think “because they’re black” is one of them.

yep, I obviously agree with that. I guess I'm wrongly equating the values of a country/continent with the word race.

[V8Granite]

How is that racial though?

There are myriad reasons why homosexuality is banned in a lot of countries, I don’t think “because they’re black” is one of them.

No it may be because they were Ugandan and that’s how they were brought up.

Or it’s the way my wife’s friend was told she was a whore as she “dressed like a prostitute” and is too old to be out.

Maybe the women who aren’t allowed out the house without their husband as their friends can’t be trusted to not sexually assault her ? (This last one was in Bangladesh though, not the U.K. but I’d be amazed if it doesn’t happen also)

I could take you to a place in Peterborough you can’t walk at night if you like as you aren’t a “proper Muslim”

It’s looking more and more like I grew up in a shithole more than anything

Dave!

[ZedLeg]

Being Ugandan and homophobic doesn’t make it a racial trait dave.

Rich says he was maybe using the wrong word, which is fair enough.