Ineos Grenadier (not dead)

[Orange Cola]

Full size LC is about the same size as the Defender. The (not real LC) one that OC posted is about 4 inches narrower

Picking and choosing which Land Cruiser is a "real one" or not is really clutching at straws, especially when there is a Defender 90 to compete against the smaller wheelbase offerings

Well there's one model of Land Cruiser sold in the UK in two different wheelbases, and one model of Defender sold in the UK in two different wheelbases.

Picking and choosing?

Saying a non-Amazon LC is not a real LC is picking and choosing, yes. I didn't say a 90 wasn't a real Defender because it's a bit smaller

[Swervin_Mervin]

Picking and choosing which Land Cruiser is a "real one" or not is really clutching at straws, especially when there is a Defender 90 to compete against the smaller wheelbase offerings

Well there's one model of Land Cruiser sold in the UK in two different wheelbases, and one model of Defender sold in the UK in two different wheelbases.

Picking and choosing?

Saying a non-Amazon LC is not a real LC is picking and choosing, yes. I didn't say a 90 wasn't a real Defender because it's a bit smaller

Is the 90 any narrower than the 110 though?

[Mito Man]

It’s a bit of an odd comparison as I don’t think a Prado is at all related to an actual Land Cruiser, down to a different chassis.
Bit like saying a Velar is a smaller wheelbase Range Rover.

[Jobbo]

It’s only OC who is getting worked up about the fact the Land Cruiser available in the UK isn’t the largest available in other markets. Fact is the UK market Land Cruiser will fit where the rather oversized Defender won’t.

[Orange Cola]

It’s only OC who is getting worked up about the fact the Land Cruiser available in the UK isn’t the largest available in other markets.

No I’m not, I’ve never said I have a problem with that. The issue is Zed thinks the LC sells in ‘very small numbers’ which it doesn’t and he also stated the LC isn’t a competitor for the Defender then claimed a smaller variant ‘isn’t a real LC’, which is ridiculous because it clearly is.

[ZedLeg]

As an owner of a real LC I feel comfortable with my assertation that the small one isn’t a real one .

The comparison between 90 and 110 defenders is stupid because the two LCs aren’t even built on the same platform.

[Orange Cola]

Right, so we’re just going to conveniently completely ignore what Toyota call their own cars which they’ve designed

It doesn’t matter what platform it’s built off, it’s still a clear competitor

[ZedLeg]

To reframe this a little, is a Range Rover Sport the same as a Range Rover and should sales for both be counted together?

I think the issue here is that we’ve been talking about entirely different cars

[Beany]

As an owner of a real LC I feel comfortable with my assertation that the small one isn’t a real one .

The comparison between 90 and 110 defenders is stupid because the two LCs aren’t even built on the same platform.

I genuinely don't know there are multiple different LCs on different platforms.

Anyone want to clarify?

[Jobbo]

As an owner of a real LC I feel comfortable with my assertation that the small one isn’t a real one .

The comparison between 90 and 110 defenders is stupid because the two LCs aren’t even built on the same platform.

I genuinely don't know there are multiple different LCs on different platforms.

Anyone want to clarify?

There are, but only one platform is sold in the UK now.

[Zonda_]

Right, so we’re just going to conveniently completely ignore what Toyota call their own cars which they’ve designed

It doesn’t matter what platform it’s built off, it’s still a clear competitor

Cough Ford Mustang Cough

[Orange Cola]

To reframe this a little, is a Range Rover Sport the same as a Range Rover and should sales for both be counted together?

I think the issue here is that we’ve been talking about entirely different cars

That’s a pretty bad example you’ve managed to pick there and there’s no need to re-frame anything, they’re both Range Rovers, one is simply a shorter wheel base than the other and there is even a long wheel base RR making it a set of three. All off them are off the same platform Would anyone say a RRS isn’t a proper RR like you did with the Land Cruiser line up? No, because that’s a stupid thing to say

[Swervin_Mervin]

It's because someone on the internet is wrong

Evidently width doesn't matter all that much to 90+% of customers, on the whole cars have been getting bigger for years and although people complain they can't fit into parking spaces any more the evidence is that folk are ok with that and are happy to live with tight parking bays because they still feel it's more important to have, or they want a bigger/wider car all of the other times.

You say that but anything over 2m wide is getting pretty big and that just seems absurd for a Defender. As you say though I doubt the target demographic of Chesire dwelling middle aged man won't care too much.

[ZedLeg]

To reframe this a little, is a Range Rover Sport the same as a Range Rover and should sales for both be counted together?

I think the issue here is that we’ve been talking about entirely different cars

That’s a pretty bad example you’ve managed to pick there and there’s no need to re-frame anything, they’re both Range Rovers, one is simply a shorter wheel base than the other and there is even a long wheel base RR making it a set of three. All off them are off the same platform Would anyone say a RRS isn’t a proper RR like you did with the Land Cruiser line up? No, because that’s a stupid thing to say

That was a really long way to not answer my question

[Rich B]

So if someone wants to know how many new BMW Z4s are wood, they have to include the Supra numbers too?

[Orange Cola]

I’d personally prefer to see cars decreasing in size again but that’s not going to happen.

[Beany]

I think the important point here is that modern large 4x4s are large. And are mostly cunts cars.

[Orange Cola]

To reframe this a little, is a Range Rover Sport the same as a Range Rover and should sales for both be counted together?

I think the issue here is that we’ve been talking about entirely different cars

That’s a pretty bad example you’ve managed to pick there and there’s no need to re-frame anything, they’re both Range Rovers, one is simply a shorter wheel base than the other and there is even a long wheel base RR making it a set of three. All off them are off the same platform Would anyone say a RRS isn’t a proper RR like you did with the Land Cruiser line up? No, because that’s a stupid thing to say

That was a really long way to not answer my question

That’s because it’s a poor question which you’re trying to use to justify saying a smaller version of the LC ‘is not a proper LC’ and shouldn’t be compared to a Defender

Here’s an extract from an article from WhatCar, unless over night they’ve become ‘not a proper motoring magazine’, I think they’re pretty good at working out competitor cars in a segment because you know, that’s pretty fundamental to how they do their day job.

“Over the next few pages we’ll tell you if the new Defender is capable of living up to its iconic nameplate and how it compares with rivals such as the Jeep Wrangler, Mercedes G-Class and Toyota Land Cruiser”

https://www.whatcar.com/land-rover/defe ... iew/n21198

[ZedLeg]

My point was that I was talking about the full size Land Cruiser not the smaller one. Which wasn’t traditionally a rival to a Defender, more of a Disco and Range Rover rival.

The Range Rover comparison was based on viewing two separate cars as one when they’re actually quite different.

I’m amazed that it took this much explaining tbh. You seem determined to be confused about this though.

[Jobbo]

So if someone wants to know how many new BMW Z4s are wood, they have to include the Supra numbers too?

Are Morgan making Z4s now?