Coronavirus

[GG.]

Polling left wing unions as to whether they approve of a conservative government's approach on anything is a pretty meaningless exercise though isn't it?

Given the political bias of the teaching profession as a whole, even a non-union survey of teachers is not likely to get you a politically neutral response.

[NotoriousREV]

Polling left wing unions as to whether they approve of a conservative government's approach on anything is a pretty meaningless exercise though isn't it?

Given the political bias of the teaching profession as a whole, even a non-union survey of teachers is not likely to get you a politically neutral response.

No, but it’s likely to tell you whether teachers feel safe going back to work or not

Weren't you the one telling people not to politicise this a while back?

[Gavin]

Polling left wing unions as to whether they approve of a conservative government's approach on anything is a pretty meaningless exercise though isn't it?

Given the political bias of the teaching profession as a whole, even a non-union survey of teachers is not likely to get you a politically neutral response.

"Left Wing unions" as opposed to what?

[NotoriousREV]

What baffles me the most* about this is that a few weeks ago, when some European countries such as Denmark and France announced they'd start reopening schools, there was a clamour over here and criticism of the GOvt' for us not following suit. Now that they've outlined a partial reopening over here suddenly Gov't are a bunch of cvnts for putting teachers' lives at risk...

*doesn't really at all

It’s almost as if the public isn’t one, singular hive mind and the media highlights a viewpoint that suits their particular agenda at any given moment in time.

[GG.]

Polling left wing unions as to whether they approve of a conservative government's approach on anything is a pretty meaningless exercise though isn't it?

Given the political bias of the teaching profession as a whole, even a non-union survey of teachers is not likely to get you a politically neutral response.

No, but it’s likely to tell you whether teachers feel safe going back to work or not

Weren't you the one telling people not to politicise this a while back?

Does it? It only is an indication of anything if you answer the question in a non-politically motivated way. Otherwise you could click 'not-safe' even if you do not feel concerned as it is a stick in the eye to the government.

[Swervin_Mervin]

Polling left wing unions as to whether they approve of a conservative government's approach on anything is a pretty meaningless exercise though isn't it?

Given the political bias of the teaching profession as a whole, even a non-union survey of teachers is not likely to get you a politically neutral response.

No, but it’s likely to tell you whether teachers feel safe going back to work or not

Weren't you the one telling people not to politicise this a while back?

Does it? It only is an indication of anything if you answer the question in a non-politically motivated way. Otherwise you could click 'not-safe' even if you do not feel concerned as it is a stick in the eye to the government.

This. And let's be honest, if this was a Labour Gov't who wouldn't expect a few Tory Authorities to also resist reopening. It's just the usual local political bullshit that goes on whoever's in charge.

[NotoriousREV]

Sorry, but I find this reasoning to be borderline moronic.

Teachers don’t feel safe going back to work, but it’s a Socialist anti-government plot

[Gavin]

Surely if that is correct Tory run councils in the other nation of the UK would be defying their devolved Governments?

[Gavin]

Sorry, but I find this reasoning to be borderline moronic.

Teachers don’t feel safe going back to work, but it’s a Socialist anti-government plot

Yup

[Swervin_Mervin]

Sorry, but I find this reasoning to be borderline moronic.

Teachers don’t feel safe going back to work, but it’s a Socialist anti-government plot

Some teachers. Get it right. Half of them probably don't even understand what the proposed measures are

Do you genuinely not believe there to be any political part being played in the decisions of these Authorities, given which ones it is that are looking to resist? I'm fairly familiar with how many of hte Manchester Authorities work and am monumnetally cycnical about how they choose to make decisions (Con and Lab). By and large they are more often than not politicised. Part of the reaosn I think Local Government in this country is joke.

Gavin - it's only a handful of Authorities that are looking to resist AFAIK i.e. a small propoertion of those that aren't under Con control. There's not that many Tory Authorities in the regions last time I checked

[NotoriousREV]

Sorry, but I find this reasoning to be borderline moronic.

Teachers don’t feel safe going back to work, but it’s a Socialist anti-government plot

Some teachers. Get it right. Do you genuinely not believe there to be any political part being played in the decisions of these Authorities, given which ones it is that are looking to resist? I'm fairly familiar with how many of hte Manchester Authorities work and am monumnetally cycnical about how they choose to make decisions (Con and Lab). By and large they are more often than not politicised. Part of the reaosn I think Local Government in this country is joke.

Gavin - it's only a handful of Authorities that are looking to resist AFAIK i.e. a small propoertion of those that aren't under Con control. There's not that many Tory Authorities in the regions last time I checked

I’m not talking about the authorities, I’m talking about the teachers. The evidence we have is surveys of teachers have overwhelmingly indicated that teachers don’t want to go back. Anecdotally, I know several teachers and head teachers, none of whom feel safe with the decision to go back (small sample size, granted).

If anyone has verifiable data to suggest otherwise, please feel free to present it here for discussion.

[GG.]

We're also avoiding the elephant in the room that if you can sit at home and carry on being paid why the hell would you want to go back and hiding behind the fact that no-one can tell you it is categorically 100% safe (nothing is right now unless you don't leave the house) is an easy way to do it.

As I said above, the argument is silly for primary school kids. The risk is low, social distancing between parents and teachers is possible (in the way it was being observed for the week prior to full lockdown), schools serve an essential function and should reopen as soon as possible. Primary school kids should be required to go back from 1 June unless there is a parent or carer (same exemption should apply for teachers) which is acutely at risk. End of story as far as I'm concerned.

[Gavin]

Yeah, there is a reason for that,and for the devolved nations going a different route.

I think teachers and educational staff are more worried about their health than giving the head clown a political black eye. The rest of he world is looking on askance at de Pfeffel's cabinet of horrors' handling of this. You mention Denmark as having gone back, no mention of France though???

Like Rev, I know a LOT of teachers, mostly in Scotland but also in England and in Germany, Japan etc and not one is keen to go back.

In Scotland the government is consulting with Unions about how to safely get schools opened up. (SNP have not been good with education up until now)

[NotoriousREV]

The risk is unknown and the reward negligible

EFA.

Feel free to send your own kids in, mine won’t be going back yet.

[Gavin]

We're also avoiding the elephant in the room that if you can sit at home and carry on being paid why the hell would you want to go back and hiding behind the fact that no-one can tell you it is categorically 100% safe (nothing is right now unless you don't leave the house) is an easy way to do it.

As I said above, the argument is silly for primary school kids. The risk is low, social distancing between parents and teachers is possible (in the way it was being observed for the week prior to full lockdown), schools serve an essential function and should reopen. Primary school kids should be required to go back from 1 June unless there is a parent or carer (same exemption should apply for teachers) which is acutely at risk. End of story as far as I'm concerned.

This so wrong it is barely worth engaging with you on it. Social distancing was not being observed in schools, it is unenforceable given class sizes and classroom sizes. Kids were made to wash their hands several times a day, that was about it.

The pomposity of your second paragraph is so staggering I am just going to belm

[Swervin_Mervin]

Anecdotally, I know a few teachers (friends and family) that are happy to go back to work. But no, I don't have a large sample size to fall back on.

Just to answer my own question of earlier - NASUWT has 300,000 members so the survey results are based on <10% responding ("nearly" 29,000). I can't find the actual published survey results on NASUWT's site though.

Had another look and several of the mere 18 LEA's that have expressed "concern" about the reopening on the 1st June, will actually still be reopening during the 2nd week anyway (presumably when half term finishes). So it's a big fuss about not very much really.

Our lad will be going back in when school reopens in 2nd week of June - left the decision to the other half, given really it's all about the risk to her.

[GG.]

The risk is unknown and the reward negligible

EFA.

Feel free to send your own kids in, mine won’t be going back yet.

Look I'm not trying to be unreasonable. As you are diabetic I wouldn't either as I would take a more risk averse approach given the consequences. I'm saying that in the absence of such specific risk factors, it would be disproportionate to stop all primary schoolkids going back for another 3 months. If we do keep kids out of school until July (for instance), it really isn't justifiable to retain a full 7/8 weeks of summer break.

[ZedLeg]

Surely it makes more sense to keep schools closed until the summer holidays and see if we’re in a better position when they’re due to go back for the new year?

The thing I dislike about people saying that primary schools are essential services is a suspicion that people see them as glorified child minders rather than schools.

TBH the meaning of essential service has been twisted to breaking point by now anyway

[NotoriousREV]

Just to answer my own question of earlier - NASUWT has 300,000 members so the survey results are based on <10% responding ("nearly" 29,000). I can't find the actual published survey results on NASUWT's site though.

Statistically speaking, with a population size of 300,000, to get an accurate result with a 5% margin of error you only need a sample size of 384, so with a sample size of 29,000, that’s a good indicator of the feeling of the union membership. Even general election polls only use sample sizes of a couple 1000 people.

[Swervin_Mervin]

Just to answer my own question of earlier - NASUWT has 300,000 members so the survey results are based on <10% responding ("nearly" 29,000). I can't find the actual published survey results on NASUWT's site though.

Statistically speaking, with a population size of 300,000, to get an accurate result with a 5% margin of error you only need a sample size of 384, so with a sample size of 29,000, that’s a good indicator of the feeling of the union membership. Even general election polls only use sample sizes of a couple 1000 people.

Yeah, I wasn't implying anything by that really. More setting the wider context.