Green Laning report

[evostick]

Looks like you had fun Jobbo. Also, with those vehicles, it looks more like pensioners that got lost on the way to the pub than the usual types I see on the lanes but as long as they did the job.

Not too many byways left open to vehicles around here but they're worth exploring.

[mik]

I was busy this weekend doing a blacksmithing course

Did you forge any new relationships? Or did you all just go and get hammered?

[Jobbo]

Looks like you had fun Jobbo. Also, with those vehicles, it looks more like pensioners that got lost on the way to the pub than the usual types I see on the lanes but as long as they did the job.

That's the idea. Who wants a Defender with a 5" lift, 33" tyres and a CB aerial 10ft tall? You'd just look a pillock.

Didn't quite reach your area though there are a few around you that I want to try.

[Mito Man]

It’s good fun, I also found it as fun as the track experiences I had done previously which I found surprising. First time I did it with my dad in his X5 which got stuck in 5 inches of mud, so I had to pull him out whilst reversing round a tight bend and I dented the rear door on a pointy branch.

I’ve only taken the UTV green laning this year as it has a tiny footprint so it’s more suited, also I can tackle banks with it and it will only slide down if I make a mistake and not roll. Also good as whenever a nosey person asks me what I’m doing I just say I’m surveying for the forestry commission rather than argue with them over byways.

[Jobbo]

There was a part of me which thought it would be less fun in something more capable. And maybe that jacked-up MX5 which the chap on PH built would be good; I don't know if I actually needed 4wd and a locked diff at any point yesterday, though without having had a 2wd car to compare it's impossible to tell.

[JLv3.0]

Dave, they're just nylon webbing type tow ropes not kinetic ropes. We don't have the strengthened recovery points which would be required for that.

Simon I have to pick up on that. It's the other way around. The ones you have are zero flex so afford no dampening, so to speak, from the tow vehicle.

Kinetic ropes are far, far kinder - think in terms of streeeeeetchboinnnnng if you like. Put it this way - no-one gets a tow web strap attached to their ankles when they jump off a bridge.

More seriously - I do have a LOT of experience with this stuff. You can use what you have - but softly softly.

[Matty]

I was busy this weekend doing a blacksmithing course

Sounds riveting.

[mik]

Iron Man training....

[Simon]

Dave, they're just nylon webbing type tow ropes not kinetic ropes. We don't have the strengthened recovery points which would be required for that.

Simon I have to pick up on that. It's the other way around. The ones you have are zero flex so afford no dampening, so to speak, from the tow vehicle.

Kinetic ropes are far, far kinder - think in terms of streeeeeetchboinnnnng if you like. Put it this way - no-one gets a tow web strap attached to their ankles when they jump off a bridge.

More seriously - I do have a LOT of experience with this stuff. You can use what you have - but softly softly.

Nah, I agree with Simon. You can deliver far, far more energy into kinetic ropes than into 'static' ones, which is why they're so much more effective at shifting stuck vehicles. One vehicle can drive hard and put some energy into the rope, because the tow car turns it's momentum into energy to pull out the stuck vehicle. If a static tow rope was as long as a kinetic type (and you also did a run up in the same way) then I'd agree with you that they need stronger mounting points, but they don't - they're usually just 4-5 meters long or whatever, and the only energy you can put into them is the static energy of pulling when already tensioned.

[JLv3.0]

Yep I see the point definitely. But isn't a sudden jolt far more damage-causing than a stretchypull? Theory aside I've seen massive damage done to cars being recovered using web straps in comparison to using kinetics.

[Jobbo]

I think JL is partly correct, actually. A kinetic rope used as intended to apply extra load to get you unstuck is going to rip off any weak attachment point, but you could always use it normally as a tow rope. I’d not thought of that before; it would certainly remove any shock loading from an inflexible recovery rope. I don’t have any particular concern about applying shock loadings though. That would mean simply driving along waiting for a slack rope to become taut. Is that how people do it in the desert?

Anyway, I don’t want broken shackles or recovery points flying through the air at my windows. So getting stuck isn’t the aim; going slowly is the plan.

[Carlos]

I was not familiar with kinetic straps until I saw this on teh tube.

It still makes me laugh

[Jobbo]

[Mito Man]

I swear most of these 4x4 nuts must be the result of severe inbreeding...

[Jobbo]

This is how you do it.

[JLv3.0]

I don’t have any particular concern about applying shock loadings though. That would mean simply driving along waiting for a slack rope to become taut. Is that how people do it in the desert?

It is, thinking about it. When you have no traction you can only use momentum - if you just apply the load slowly to a slack rope, the tow vehicle will just bog as well. Then you have a very taut rope and two very stuck cars

That's why kinetic ropes are the only way for the desert - convert that momentum into a nice snatch (yes, I said nice snatch) but without ripping subframes off.

Of course green laning is different. I'll shut up now

[Orange Cola]

Snatch recovery is the damaging one, that’s where you need reinforced mounts. Typically it’s been done with a tow rope/strop and so there’s no damping. You’ve basically got the weight of the tow car, at X speed, suddenly going tight on the mount. The kinetic ones are far kinder and allow you to build up the momentum.

You could just fit a double winch, 40+ inch mud tyres, portal axles and own it

[IanF]

Is that Paddy McGuinness providing the commentary!?

[Simon]

Yes, I think context and usage is important here.

In order of increasing 'peak shock' loads on the mounting points:

1) Kinetic rope, already tensioned attached to static tow vehicle. Tow vehicle pulls away
2) Static rope, already tensioned attached to static tow vehicle. Tow vehicle pulls away
3) Kinetic rope, not tensioned, attached to static tow vehicle. Tow vehicle accelerates away quickly to stretch the rope. (net effect: either tow vehicle slows to a stop or stuck vehicle is pulled free)
4) Static rope, not tensioned, attached to static tow vehicle. Tow vehicle accelerates away quickly to yank the stuck vehicle out. (net effect: one of both videos has it's bumper ripped off and the resultant video is uploaded to YouTube for LOLs)

[NotoriousREV]

I was busy this weekend doing a blacksmithing course

This isn’t what I thought he meant when he said that his imminent divorce meant he’d be bashing one out a lot.