New new Labour?

[IanF]

https://news.sky.com/story/live-labour- ... s-11640901?

I was hopeful this would take off, but realistically, even if they tie up with Lib Dems and a couple of Torys; they’re going to get smashed, aren’t they?

I tried to imagine how a fair three party system would work, but I think it’d be unlikely that any one party would get over 50% and so we’d end up with a Coalition government. IMHO, that made for an ineffective government, destroyed the reputation of one party in the process, and promotes a more extremist outlook as the parties try to differentiate themselves.

[Broccers]

I love it - JC getting it. Proves what a total wanker he is.

[NotoriousREV]

7 MPs in one hit is pretty huge. It'll be interesting to see what happens next. Will they get enough LibDems, Remain Tories and New Labourites to form a new party?

[Beany]

Woopsy...

[dinny_g]

I tried to imagine how a fair three party system would work, but I think it’d be unlikely that any one party would get over 50% and so we’d end up with a Coalition government.

This...

[NotoriousREV]

I tried to imagine how a fair three party system would work, but I think it’d be unlikely that any one party would get over 50% and so we’d end up with a Coalition government.

This...

I'm beginning to think that's no bad thing anymore, stops the extremists taking over. But we need a more mature electorate that understands that joining a coalition isn't selling out.

[Jobbo]

I don't think this is going to start a shake-up of the major parties, sadly. Looking at these MPs' constituencies, they look very much like Labour strongholds. So Labour just fields new random people in the next election and probably get the seats back.

However, I very much hope that some Tories join and we get a viable strong, experienced and principled alternative party.

[IanF]

I tried to imagine how a fair three party system would work, but I think it’d be unlikely that any one party would get over 50% and so we’d end up with a Coalition government.

This...

I'm beginning to think that's no bad thing anymore, stops the extremists taking over. But we need a more mature electorate that understands that joining a coalition isn't selling out.

I see your point, but isn’t that exactly what has happened to Labour after the last Coalition?

[IanF]

I don't think this is going to start a shake-up of the major parties, sadly. Looking at these MPs' constituencies, they look very much like Labour strongholds. So Labour just fields new random people in the next election and probably get the seats back.

However, I very much hope that some Tories join and we get a viable strong, experienced and principled alternative party.

They’re all strong Labour, Remain constituencies. Unless Labour changes its position, they may hold on.

[Jobbo]

I don't think this is going to start a shake-up of the major parties, sadly. Looking at these MPs' constituencies, they look very much like Labour strongholds. So Labour just fields new random people in the next election and probably get the seats back.

However, I very much hope that some Tories join and we get a viable strong, experienced and principled alternative party.

They’re all strong Labour, Remain constituencies. Unless Labour changes its position, they may hold on.

I am full of hope but have two doubts:
- Brexit is not a party political issue so if they only have that binding them together, there's a risk that they're torn in many directions when it actually comes to running the country; and
- Gavin Shuker's constituency (Luton South) was 54.6% in favour of Leave. I haven't checked the others yet.

ETA: Angela Smith's constituency (Penistone and Stockbridge) was 60.65% Leave; the rest of them were Remain.

[NotoriousREV]

This...

I'm beginning to think that's no bad thing anymore, stops the extremists taking over. But we need a more mature electorate that understands that joining a coalition isn't selling out.

I see your point, but isn’t that exactly what has happened to Labour after the last Coalition?

Yes, but if the only way they can get power is to join with less extreme parties then it dilutes them. The LibDems definitely curbed some of the things the Tories wanted to do. If the coalition was more evenly split then they could have done even more.

[IanF]

I'm beginning to think that's no bad thing anymore, stops the extremists taking over. But we need a more mature electorate that understands that joining a coalition isn't selling out.

I see your point, but isn’t that exactly what has happened to Labour after the last Coalition?

Yes, but if the only way they can get power is to join with less extreme parties then it dilutes them. The LibDems definitely curbed some of the things the Tories wanted to do. If the coalition was more evenly split then they could have done even more.

Yes, but that doesn’t stop the opposition becoming more extreme. In fact, you could probably argue, the more middle ground the Coalition is , the more extreme the opposition has to become.

So next General Election, you either stick with current government or vote for the extremists. If the current government has been shit, what do you do?

[IanF]

I don't think this is going to start a shake-up of the major parties, sadly. Looking at these MPs' constituencies, they look very much like Labour strongholds. So Labour just fields new random people in the next election and probably get the seats back.

However, I very much hope that some Tories join and we get a viable strong, experienced and principled alternative party.

They’re all strong Labour, Remain constituencies. Unless Labour changes its position, they may hold on.

I am full of hope but have two doubts:
- Brexit is not a party political issue so if they only have that binding them together, there's a risk that they're torn in many directions when it actually comes to running the country; and
- Gavin Shuker's constituency (Luton South) was 54.6% in favour of Leave. I haven't checked the others yet.

ETA: Angela Smith's constituency (Penistone and Stockbridge) was 60.65% Leave; the rest of them were Remain.

Yeah, except this Conservative government isn’t behaving like the Conservatives of old and old New Labour were the most conservative Labour has ever been, so maybe not miles apart. Plus Politicians will do almost anything to be voted in.

Shuka Umunna’s constituency voted 79.5% Remain, but he withdrew from the Leadership contest in ‘15 due being unable to cope with the scrutiny!? Hardly leadership materiel.

[NotoriousREV]

I see your point, but isn’t that exactly what has happened to Labour after the last Coalition?

Yes, but if the only way they can get power is to join with less extreme parties then it dilutes them. The LibDems definitely curbed some of the things the Tories wanted to do. If the coalition was more evenly split then they could have done even more.

Yes, but that doesn’t stop the opposition becoming more extreme. In fact, you could probably argue, the more middle ground the Coalition is , the more extreme the opposition has to become.

So next General Election, you either stick with current government or vote for the extremists. If the current government has been shit, what do you do?

This is the situation I think a lot of people find themselves in right now. I simply can't vote for either the Conservatives or Labour and now, more than ever, a vote for the Lib Dems is a wasted vote.

It really is time for a better system than FPTP.

[Swervin_Mervin]

Yes, but if the only way they can get power is to join with less extreme parties then it dilutes them. The LibDems definitely curbed some of the things the Tories wanted to do. If the coalition was more evenly split then they could have done even more.

Yes, but that doesn’t stop the opposition becoming more extreme. In fact, you could probably argue, the more middle ground the Coalition is , the more extreme the opposition has to become.

So next General Election, you either stick with current government or vote for the extremists. If the current government has been shit, what do you do?

This is the situation I think a lot of people find themselves in right now. I simply can't vote for either the Conservatives or Labour and now, more than ever, a vote for the Lib Dems is a wasted vote.

It really is time for a better system than FPTP.

There's a grass is always greener aspect to this though - take a look at some of those EU countries who are well used to multi-party politics, and have had coalition governments for years. Often that can mean you have no stability in Government as those coalitions tear themselves apart due to self interests, or one party losing out in an election and them all having to reform satisfactorily.

I think our current arrangement is broken, but not sure the alternative is much better. Once we know what direction Brexit is heading in, I think the parties will start to heal and move on, and <wishful thinking> hopefully we'll find ourselves with a system that is workable.

All of that said, I think the Con-Lib coalition was actually fairly effective - it's just a shame all those yellow voters threw their dummies out because they didn't understand that taking some power meant compromise on some of their promises.

[NotoriousREV]

I just think 2 party systems don't work and we have a defacto 2 party system in which no real change can take place. I like this new group's assertion of data lead decisions rather than idealogical but I'll believe it when I see it.

[GG.]

Yes, but if the only way they can get power is to join with less extreme parties then it dilutes them. The LibDems definitely curbed some of the things the Tories wanted to do. If the coalition was more evenly split then they could have done even more.

Yes, but that doesn’t stop the opposition becoming more extreme. In fact, you could probably argue, the more middle ground the Coalition is , the more extreme the opposition has to become.

So next General Election, you either stick with current government or vote for the extremists. If the current government has been shit, what do you do?

This is the situation I think a lot of people find themselves in right now. I simply can't vote for either the Conservatives or Labour and now, more than ever, a vote for the Lib Dems is a wasted vote.

It really is time for a better system than FPTP.

Be careful what you wish for. If you replaced FPTP with PR you'd have had 82 UKIP MEPs in parliament after the 2015 general election, rather than 1.

You can further tweak the PR system to offer second preferences, etc. but whichever way you look at it you have to accept that it will inevitably lead to greater representation for more extreme parties in parliament.

[NotoriousREV]

Yes, but that doesn’t stop the opposition becoming more extreme. In fact, you could probably argue, the more middle ground the Coalition is , the more extreme the opposition has to become.

So next General Election, you either stick with current government or vote for the extremists. If the current government has been shit, what do you do?

This is the situation I think a lot of people find themselves in right now. I simply can't vote for either the Conservatives or Labour and now, more than ever, a vote for the Lib Dems is a wasted vote.

It really is time for a better system than FPTP.

Be careful what you wish for. If you replaced FPTP with PR you'd have had 82 UKIP MEPs in parliament after the 2015 general election, rather than 1.

You can further tweak the PR system to offer second preferences, etc. but whichever way you look at it you have to accept that it will inevitably lead to greater representation for more extreme parties in parliament.

Notice I specifically didn't mention PR

[Jobbo]

Once we know what direction Brexit is heading in, I think the parties will start to heal and move on, and <wishful thinking> hopefully we'll find ourselves with a system that is workable.

Blimey, you really are expecting the moon on a stick!

[NotoriousREV]

Once we know what direction Brexit is heading in, I think the parties will start to heal and move on, and <wishful thinking> hopefully we'll find ourselves with a system that is workable.

Blimey, you really are expecting the moon on a stick!

Didn't you know? The EU is to blame for everything!