Bye bye Theresa

[JLv3.0]

Taken me nearly an hour to catch-up on this thread. Worth doing though.

I voted to leave. I so wish I hadn't. Even though I've seen endless posts on Facebook regarding the things we've lost since joining the EU, I cannot image we're alone in that and we've equally gained, too.

Looking back, my memory suggests the information I had available at the time (which represents all which I was able to amass and understand at the time, considering how busy life is and the fact that Brexit, as a thing, occupied my mind along with probably 200 other items) persuaded me to vote leave. My honest view at the time? I think I thought the UK needed to go it alone. Remember, that was the view based on what I'd heard, read, talked about etc along with 200 other things going in my life at the time. I didn't have the time to spend 2 days solid going over all the arguments. And in any case, I never remember receiving anything through the post to even prompt that argument, one way or another. I remember a strange campaign in many ways, on TV all the time, politicians at it constantly, but actual information being thin on the ground, no obvious canvassing, all very distant.

As stupid as it sounds, given the grave importance of it, I voted leave because it almost came down a coin toss, based on what little info I had been fed (yes, really) and that which I'd been able to find for myself (very little). And probably, if I'm honest, unconscious bias or something akin to it, informed by my upbringing and general environment. My parents, bless them, were never very forward thinking or progressive. Old fashioned, basically. So I defaulted to type when asked to vote in the absence of anything convincing to the contrary. Probably the only time my gut feeling has been wrong. And it's not the case that I always followed my father, for example, a strong character in the family home, growing up. He always voted Labour. I've always voted Conservative.

None of that helps, although one wonders how many countless thousands 40-somethings were in the same boat. The comment about educated types not being the ones chanting "leave, leave, leave" is spot on. I wasn't convinced when I voted. I was even less convinced the morning after. And now I know it's the worst decision I've ever made.

And I thought I couldn't think any less of you. Well done.

[Rich B]

As stupid as it sounds, given the grave importance of it, I voted leave because it almost came down a coin toss, based on what little info I had been fed (yes, really) and that which I'd been able to find for myself (very little).

Massively stupid. If you don’t understand what you’re voting to change to, then don’t vote to change to it.

No Rich, it wasn’t ‘massively stupid’. Try to find a little space in your head to entertain the idea that some voters still want to contribute even though they’re on the fence right up until the moment they’re stood there, pencil in hand. I regret the decision. But if I’d not voted, that would have been worse as apathy is the logical conclusion. ‘Stupid’ refers only to the ‘on the fence’ nature of the decision.

If myself and others like me had voted remain and not leave it may have been different. Hindsight of course. We’re back to the lack of info or clarity on the argument. I vote the same way in each GE because I know, give or take, what I’ll be getting. But with this, it was something totally new and without experience as to what to do. The info wasn’t sufficient, hence being on the fence. But that doesn’t necessarily mean I should abstain. Yes I regret the way I voted, but I don’t regret deciding to vote, as clumsy as that sounds.

No, it was stupid. If someone says you can keep all your inheritance money in your bank or swap it for seven hundred thousand shiny boobliebums, would you try to find out more about the boobliebums (then stick with your inheritance because there’s no solid information on the worth of boobliebums) or just flip a coin.

[JLv3.0]

But with this, it was something totally new and without experience as to what to do. The info wasn’t sufficient, hence being on the fence. But that doesn’t necessarily mean I should abstain.

Yes, it should. You acted without sufficient information. That makes you a moron, as that is the definition of stupidity.

Dress it up how you like Mark, and play the "oh just try and walk a mile in my shoes because you don't understand my liiiiiiiiiiiiiife" shite as much as you want, but you, Mark, are a moron.

Enjoy your stupid, irrational, non-informed decision. And frankly I don't care how "super busy at the time" you were. You made a rash decision based on nothing when you should know better.

Moron.

[ShockDiamonds]

The referendum was fought on empty rhetoric by both sides. Remain failed to put forward any cogent arguments to dispel the myths being spread the likes of UKIP etc., nor did they target those in the middle who probably followed the same coin toss approach. I don't blame anyone for how they voted but I just think that given everything we've learned in the last 2 years, if you still strongly want Leave and you can't pull together a logical argument that even begins to explain the benefits, then you need to take a long, hard look in the mirror.

I even entertained the idea of voting Leave myself up to the last couple of weeks before the Ref, but in the end I didn't feel it stacked up at all and that the very best deal we could have is the one we have now.

- We are not in Schengen so we control our borders
- We are not in the Euro so we control our money
- We have the power of veto
- We have a rebate on what we pay in
- We are as influential in the EU as France or Germany
- We are part of the customs union
- We are sovereign as proven by today's decision

What more could you possibly want?

This is correct, and James as per usual is being very insulting and overly personal. Wanting to use your vote as best you can at the time is not moronic, James. And I’d suggest that thousands of people were in that position, undecided and on the fence, which is why the result was so close. Why make it so personal, hurtful and attacking? There’s no need for it.

[Swervin_Mervin]

I did answer a very long time ago. No one responded at the time. I choose not to respond again because I cba with the utterly pointless arguing that could ensue (appreciating that I am sort of right now ).

See, JL? I told you.

Mike, I swear I’m not being provocative, but what “shit that the EU gets up to” do you mean? I’d guess the Greece situation?

Wasn't suggesting you were Dave. Greece is but one amongst many issues, but probably one of the biggest.

I choose not to engage as I rarely argue politics - I see it as a fruitless waste of time that only ever makes people on both sides very angry. Question Time is banned in our household! Occasionally I get drawn in only to remind me why I normally proactively avoid it

I cba arguing generally about most things tbh. The wife fvcking loves arguing - practically a professional sport for her but then she's Welsh.

[speedingfine]

ShockingDecisionowned?

Seriously SD, your best windup post yet

[ShockDiamonds]

ShockingDecisionowned?

Seriously SD, your best windup post yet

An honest post just saying what happened and how I felt. No windup intended.

[JLv3.0]

Wanting to use your vote as best you can at the time is not moronic, James.

Are you able to defend how you used your vote the best you could?

edit - better idea. Don't bother. I don't care what, or how, you think.

[ShockDiamonds]

Nothing more to add than what I posted in terms of how I voted. I just feel you go a little over the top, James. You take an honest post and lay into someone. Then look to shut the conversation down.

[ZedLeg]

The things I miss when I don’t go to work .

Even by your usual standards you’ve pulled a shocker SD.

IMO voting when you don’t know what you’re voting for is worse than not voting. Especially when you voted for a massively disruptive change when you could’ve voted to keep the status quo. No better than the numbskulls who vote for UKIP because “they’ll shake things up a bit”.

[JLv3.0]

Nothing more to add than what I posted in terms of how I voted. I just feel you go a little over the top, James. You take an honest post and lay into someone. Then look to shut the conversation down.

Yes, that's a fair comment. I just think that as a well-educated, intelligent person, your misinformed actions are absolutely abhorrent.

I do apologise for being insulting but your actions are more repugnant to me than any "man on the street".

You should have known better and you blamed your busy lifestyle for your choice. That, to me, is execrable.

I'm done here. All yours now.

[NotoriousREV]

I think that SD is being far more honest about his ignorance than most people.

[Rich B]

I think that SD is being far more honest about his ignorance than most people.

Fair point.

[ShockDiamonds]

The things I miss when I don’t go to work .

Even by your usual standards you’ve pulled a shocker SD.

IMO voting when you don’t know what you’re voting for is worse than not voting. Especially when you voted for a massively disruptive change when you could’ve voted to keep the status quo. No better than the numbskulls who vote for UKIP because “they’ll shake things up a bit”.

Here’s the thing. Ultimately, at the time, the info I had was, as far as I was concerned and aware, was all the info available. So I made the call, mixed with my personal bias I guess. So I knew what I was voting for, but I know more now about what I would be voting for.

It was an awful decision I know that now. I wonder how many other people in the country think the same.

[ShockDiamonds]

I think that SD is being far more honest about his ignorance than most people.

Spot on, it was ignorance. Ignorance of where this decision would lead us. And it upsets me, because I detest ignorance and fight at all times to prevent it around me. I failed miserably on this occasion.

But without genuinely wanting to continue too much with James, the ‘lifestyle’ element is relevant. When the info you need isn’t readily available and you have to go searching for it, set against people screaming for stuff, life taking over, fighting fires and/or subconscious tends to win.

[Rich B]

Yep, no one else has lifestyle stuff to deal with.

[ShockDiamonds]

Last thought on this. IIRC the turnout was something like 70% yet the decision was nigh on 50/50, wasn’t it? I reckon there were a lot of fence dwellers right up until the last knockings. And those that voted leave, probably over 40s like me, fucked it up.

[ShockDiamonds]

Yep, no one else has lifestyle stuff to deal with.

Yes but I’m talking about me Rich. Not you or anybody else.

[Rich B]

Yep, no one else has lifestyle stuff to deal with.

Yes but I’m talking about me Rich. Not you or anybody else.

Well I voted remain because there was no plan set out for any other option, shame so many others didn’t even give it that much thought.

[ShockDiamonds]

Yep, no one else has lifestyle stuff to deal with.

Yes but I’m talking about me Rich. Not you or anybody else.

Well I voted remain because there was no plan set out for any other option, shame so many others didn’t even give it that much thought.

This probably cannot be answered, but would you want to leave Europe? For you, Remain was ever the only option? In which case, you wouldn’t need a plan I guess. Dunno.