Bye Bye Burnham

[dinny_g]

And you don’t think some landlords will think… “They’re not paying council tax anymore so can afford higher rent - so I’ll raise the rent because they can afford it” ??

But ultimately, it's win win for Burnham because WHEN this happens, he can blame the Tories because, as we all know, most landlord are Tories

[Jobbo]

And you don’t think some landlords will think… “They’re not paying council tax anymore so can afford higher rent - so I’ll raise the rent because they can afford it” ??

But ultimately, it's win win for Burnham because WHEN this happens, he can blame the Tories because, as we all know, most landlord are Tories

I'm not sure if you aren't reading what I've posted twice now. Yes, the landlords will raise rents for exactly that reason. The blame game is irrelevant because it hasn't happened and it'll be very hard for anyone to object to since it'll make moving house easier and property taxes fairer.

[dinny_g]

Fair enough...

[Jobbo]

I'm sad that this forum of intelligent and cynical people seems to care more about the optics than the substance. The amount of propaganda I've heard people come out with that he's apparently said is incredible. He might turn out to be an awful leftie but judge him on his policies when he announces them, not some made-up smears.

[V8Granite]

So as an example it would cost us over £2000 a month extra to own the house. The council tax she pays is roughly £1500, there is no way landlords will take another £500 on. Now this is right at the bottom of the market for a house in our area and people are already being charged extra for the extra invoicing, having to put homes into band C for large amounts of money, not allowed to choose who stays there etc

There are good landlords and bad landlords, good tenants and bad tenants. The only people this is helping is the bad tenants. Labour have an agenda and private landlords is something they simply don't want.

Dave!

[V8Granite]

I'm sad that this forum of intelligent and cynical people seems to care more about the optics than the substance. The amount of propaganda I've heard people come out with that he's apparently said is incredible. He might turn out to be an awful leftie but judge him on his policies when he announces them, not some made-up smears.

Agreed.

Dave!

[dinny_g]

Agreed +1

Swings both ways but yeah, it's all just talk at the moment.

If, and it's an If, it comes to pass that homeowners are charged a different type of tax on home ownership and in a corresponding move, renters are not charged council tax or similar, renters will end up paying more - its just the way of the world

But as you say, this might not happen

[GG.]

LVT would not benefit me but I don't object to it ultimately because it's much fairer than SDLT and Council Tax.

Happy to pay LVT on drip if I get a refund of the just under 10% of the purchase price of my house that I paid 8 weeks ago...

The only fair way of doing this would be for LVT to become payable from the next time a house is purchased otherwise he's going to absolutely shaft everyone that has moved in the recent past.

[dinny_g]

But... [Labour] You've just bought a house so you obviously have money so you can afford it. You have broad shoulders [/Labour]

[GG.]

But... [Labour] You've just bought a house so you obviously have money so you can afford it. You have broad shoulders [/Labour]

Indeed. If by "afford" you mean afford to lose half the equity I'd built up over 14 years to pay it then yes that is correct.

[Jobbo]

So as an example it would cost us over £2000 a month extra to own the house.

How could you possibly know that - he hasn't announced anything nor any amounts, but I'm assuming you're basing this on 1% of the market value of £200k. I think the idea is that would be yearly, not monthly, but based on your comparison with council tax that must have been a typo.

The proposal I think comes from Dan Neidle and others - here's an article about it: https://taxpolicy.org.uk/2024/10/18/how ... perty-tax/ To be tax neutral the rate of LVT would be between 0.5% and 1% of the 'unimproved land value' - that's not taking into account the building on the land, it's a land value tax, so the value against which it would be calculated is less than £200k.

Like GG I paid a big chunk of SDLT fairly recently - though it's actually over 2 years ago now for me - so I would expect there to be some sort of tapering in so as not to penalise people in that position.

SDLT is a terrible tax which serious impairs social mobility. Council tax has been unfair for years - it was only acceptable because it was better than the Poll Tax. Property tax reform can only be a good thing.

[Rich B]

I just did a quick check, the average SDLT paid by first time buyers in the south east (which is where i live so where im interested in!) is £9k, on a property price of £480k. So they’re having to save up about £60k….

No wonder the average FTB is in their mid 30s…

Something has to happen to reduce that figure - and if Removing SDLT is an option, it’s worth exploring.

[Mito Man]

The main concern with the LVT is like everything else it starts off small and reasonable at first. Where will we be 10 years down the line with it etc.
The debt projections for the UK are bleak so it’s only going to go one way. And it will be another thing to stress about at every bloody budget…

[duncs500]

Would be interesting to see how any LVT would work for farms with development potential. I don't know what's going on around the rest of the nation but the fields round me are turning into housing estates at an alarming rate already as it is.

[jamcg]

I was replying to Dave's post that renters would be getting screwed. They won't be - the landlords will have to bear the burden of LVT but tenants won't have to pay Council Tax, so rents will obviously go up to cover the extra cost to the landlord and the saving to the tenant but there's no reason why the tenants will ultimately pay more in total each month. So even leftie Burnham can bring in this change without it being a negative for renters.

I beg to differ. If you pay £750 per calendar month, and £200 council tax, and the £200 becomes the landlord’s responsibility, your rent will become £1100 not £950 because the landlord will smell profit and charge more

At the moment if the tenant pays council tax it’s a set amount, controlled and regulated by the local government. If you put that in the hands of landlords they will have opportunity to pass on that and more, and no regulation will prevent that. Especially with all the energy rating regulations incoming, which will screw over renters aswell- landlords won’t upgrade your house for free

[ZedLeg]

And some say that there’s a problem with turning domestic property into a business asset

[Jobbo]

I was replying to Dave's post that renters would be getting screwed. They won't be - the landlords will have to bear the burden of LVT but tenants won't have to pay Council Tax, so rents will obviously go up to cover the extra cost to the landlord and the saving to the tenant but there's no reason why the tenants will ultimately pay more in total each month. So even leftie Burnham can bring in this change without it being a negative for renters.

I beg to differ. If you pay £750 per calendar month, and £200 council tax, and the £200 becomes the landlord’s responsibility, your rent will become £1100 not £950 because the landlord will smell profit and charge more

At the moment if the tenant pays council tax it’s a set amount, controlled and regulated by the local government. If you put that in the hands of landlords they will have opportunity to pass on that and more, and no regulation will prevent that. Especially with all the energy rating regulations incoming, which will screw over renters aswell- landlords won’t upgrade your house for free

You can differ as much as you like but if the tenant can just about afford to pay £1100 in future they can afford to pay £900 now and the current rent is too low

[V8Granite]

And some say that there’s a problem with turning domestic property into a business asset

I don't know what would need to change to fix housing. It seems unless you have big pay rises or get on the housing ladder early then it's incredibly difficult.

Our mortgage on the rental is more than the rent we get, when people want a return with small 20% deposits on interest only mortgages then that has pushed the rental price up massively. The house across the road which is essentially the same is £250 a month more which must include the profit after running costs etc.

If you have a repayment mortgage then the income is more stable as you are slowing paying the place off and reducing your monthly or your term.

The problem from what I can see on a few landlord groups is the people it's pushing away are the ones with long term tenants with a low rent as they don't want the hassle or extra expense.

My neighbour who runs a company getting teens and vulnerable people back into a working part of society has just stopped as it's become so expensive to run the houses and this is with council contracts.

When businesses take over the market completely I can't see rents coming down at all.

Dave!

[Nefarious]

And some say that there’s a problem with turning domestic property into a business asset

Just out of curiosity, is it private ownership in the rental sector you object to, or the principle of renting/letting per se?

[ZedLeg]

It’s complicated tbh, I have big problems with how we manage housing in this country generally.

Housing is either expensive, not fit for purpose or a combination of both and imo the root problem is the idea that your house should be an appreciating asset.

Once landlords come in with that mindset it exacerbates the problems.

We’ve discussed this before and I know my opinion is coloured by my experiences as a life long renter.

I still think that we should be making a concerted effort to rebuild housing stock but it’s not likely to happen any time soon.

I’m pretty against landlords in principle but I can understand that they’re a necessary evil in the current environment. I wish they would stop whinging about how hard they have it though