Harry’s Garage

[RobYob]

Was lucy that Harry found that closed section of road

Won't be long until there's the "portions of this video may contain AI" disclaimer

Absolute masterpiece. But leaves me wondering how much of THAT can be democratised? The Cosworth engine is obviously a very very special (expensive) thing but I've not heard much about ground breaking superlight carbon chassis or anything, so does that mean a <1000kg car is entirely possible for run of the mill manufacturers if they just stopped turboing and hybridising everything all the damn time? That the 911 is now positively bulbous in comparison is damning.

Clarkson was quite weird about the car, but at least he's looking a lot healthier these days (I've not kept up with the Farm show)

[Holley]

I think the reason is it's 1080kg is no sound deadening whatsoever. As Mik said, a long road trip would lose its appeal fairly quickly unless you put earplugs in. T33 appeals more.

[IanF]

I love that car but absolutely hate the front lights!.. the actual light units are far smaller (and could possibly be even smaller), so don’t get the design.

In fact, looking at the s1 lm , the slit light design would work and looks like it’s just a body coloured panel covering the rest of the light area.. perfect!

[scotta]

Very similar noise levels in the cabin to what I had with the Elise with the 2Bular exhaust. That was draining on a journey. I remember coming back from Silverstone in in and being passed in the motorway by a Jaguar XJ and uttering the word “Bastard”

Beyond that however - What a thing. Absolutely epic.

[RobYob]

I think the reason is it's 1080kg is no sound deadening whatsoever. As Mik said, a long road trip would lose its appeal fairly quickly unless you put earplugs in. T33 appeals more.

It's a myth that sound deadening/pack in sport cars adds much mass. In a Bentley/RR it might be 50kg. But in anything sporting it'll almost certainly be less than a tenth of that.

T50's high noise is probably the combination of that high revving solid/semi solidly mounted engine and rose joint suspension transmitting all the tyre noise straight to the chassis.

[Mito Man]

Watched the video up until he said it costs £6 million and then lost all interest.
The noise sounds like straight cut gears. It sounds exactly like a Caterham from the inside

[V8Granite]

It's like a group C car where you don't have to worry about smooth roads.

A bit surprised at the oil temp issue as you can have some very simple things to maintain a good temp.

Just a few times per drive to be able to stretch that engine right to the redline would be amazing. Awesome

Dave!

[Jimexpl]

It's like a group C car where you don't have to worry about smooth roads.

A bit surprised at the oil temp issue as you can have some very simple things to maintain a good temp.

Just a few times per drive to be able to stretch that engine right to the redline would be amazing. Awesome

Dave!

It seems like a 100-150 mile car to me, a lot like a modified Elise or Caterham. Great for a blast to clear the mind for an hour, stop for a coffee/lunch, then drive back.

[V8Granite]

It's like a group C car where you don't have to worry about smooth roads.

A bit surprised at the oil temp issue as you can have some very simple things to maintain a good temp.

Just a few times per drive to be able to stretch that engine right to the redline would be amazing. Awesome

Dave!

It seems like a 100-150 mile car to me, a lot like a modified Elise or Caterham. Great for a blast to clear the mind for an hour, stop for a coffee/lunch, then drive back.

As Harry mentioned at the end it's surprisingly aggressive to in any way be called a GT car. I wonder if the T33 will seem different enough to fall into that category.

Dave!

[Jobbo]

I'm not a fan of the T50 at all now. I liked the looks but this feels pretty unusable - the steering wheel wasn't just moving around, it was visibly shaking on the Charlbury road. And the sound of the very high revs is like a motorbike but the gearchange is so slow in comparison to bike box that the audio of changing gear just sounds like hamfistedness. Oh, and the T50 isn't narrower than the 992; the 992 is the same 1850mm as the T50 except in Turbo or GT3 RS form.

Give me a Rocket instead, please.

[Alex88]

Clearly an absolute mega car, but it seems very hard work and I imagine the occasions where you'll be in the mood for it will be few and far between, especially since you'll be driving miles just to get the oil hot enough to fully open it up. By that point I'd think I'd have had enough. Headache inducing just watching it.

And for the cost, I'm not sure I'd ever be comfortable trying to extract a visceral driving experience from it. An Elise or Caterham can offer similar for a fraction of the cost.

I won't be buying one.

[Marv]

I'm not a fan of the T50 at all now. I liked the looks but this feels pretty unusable - the steering wheel wasn't just moving around, it was visibly shaking on the Charlbury road. And the sound of the very high revs is like a motorbike but the gearchange is so slow in comparison to bike box that the audio of changing gear just sounds like hamfistedness. Oh, and the T50 isn't narrower than the 992; the 992 is the same 1850mm as the T50 except in Turbo or GT3 RS form.

Give me a Rocket instead, please.

I don't quite understand Harry's logic that it's chasing camber in the road because it has non-assisted steering. I can't remember any of the non-assisted cars I've driven following camber just because it's non-assisted. It's just an overly-aggressive set up. Wonder if you could specify it a bit more suitable for road driving? Seems unlikely.

It's a wonderful machine, but a bit too harsh perhaps.

CGT or LFA for me please

[mik]

I don't quite understand Harry's logic that it's chasing camber in the road because it has non-assisted steering.

Agree!

[GG.]

I guess the point is that with an assisted rack it takes much less effort to stop the wheel tugging as the car follows cambers whereas with an unassisted setup there would be more wrestling with the wheel. I agree that technically it may not be "doing it" more or less, but the effect is more noticeable.

[Jobbo]

I guess the point is that with an assisted rack it takes much less effort to stop the wheel tugging as the car follows cambers whereas with an unassisted setup there would be more wrestling with the wheel. I agree that technically it may not be "doing it" more or less, but the effect is more noticeable.

As far as I remember (and this is not from my engineering degree but from car magazine articles, so even if my memory is right it may not be terribly accurate) assisted racks are generally more prone to camber following because the geometry can be set up more aggressively than non-assisted setups - the power assistance mitigates the issue. I think we need @dan's input though.

[mik]

Hmm - I am no geo guru, but generally power-assistance allows you to use higher caster angles (which bring with them an increase in the force required to turn the steering), so maybe there is something in that after all? (As an example - caster on the Evora (with HPAS) is +5.5 Deg, where Elise/Exige (no PAS) are around +3.8 Deg.

No idea what the caster is on the T50, but l suspect it's not that high - which is likely to increase the propensity for tramlining. The shimmying of the wheel in Harry's vid seemed rather excessive (when he's almost not holding the wheel at all) but you don't see that in other sections of the vid where he is driving, and he certainly doesn't seem to be fighting it.....

[scotta]

My biggest issue with it is the cost. You could buy something for a fraction of the cost that would give you most of the same.

Lotus 3 Eleven, 992 GT3 RS, Mclaren 675 LT, Plus a trailer and a race van if you wanted to do trips to the ring spa ect. But I suppose if you had the money then you would have all that already. Likes of Dario Franchitti are the target audience.

[Matty]

I guess the point is that with an assisted rack it takes much less effort to stop the wheel tugging as the car follows cambers whereas with an unassisted setup there would be more wrestling with the wheel. I agree that technically it may not be "doing it" more or less, but the effect is more noticeable.

As far as I remember (and this is not from my engineering degree but from car magazine articles, so even if my memory is right it may not be terribly accurate) assisted racks are generally more prone to camber following because the geometry can be set up more aggressively than non-assisted setups - the power assistance mitigates the issue. I think we need @dan's input though.

There's an interesting article, I think by David Pook, about how Alfa fucked this all up with the 4C, chasing unassisted steering for purity but ending up with the now infamous twitchy, hedge hunting settings from factory, otherwise it was too heavy to be usable.

Alfaworks claim this can be fixed by fitting PAS which allows for much more aggressive camber/caster settings. People who've had it fitted back this up, but then you would of you'd paid £7k for the privilege.

[scotta]

I guess the point is that with an assisted rack it takes much less effort to stop the wheel tugging as the car follows cambers whereas with an unassisted setup there would be more wrestling with the wheel. I agree that technically it may not be "doing it" more or less, but the effect is more noticeable.

As far as I remember (and this is not from my engineering degree but from car magazine articles, so even if my memory is right it may not be terribly accurate) assisted racks are generally more prone to camber following because the geometry can be set up more aggressively than non-assisted setups - the power assistance mitigates the issue. I think we need @dan's input though.

There's an interesting article, I think by David Pook, about how Alfa fucked this all up with the 4C, chasing unassisted steering for purity but ending up with the now infamous twitchy, hedge hunting settings from factory, otherwise it was too heavy to be usable.

Alfaworks claim this can be fixed by fitting PAS which allows for much more aggressive camber/caster settings. People who've had it fitted back this up, but then you would of you'd paid £7k for the privilege.

Mate is a mechanic who worked at Alfa when they launched the 4C. There was well documented GEO changes that made the car infinitely better. BUT they wore out the suspension components quickly (Bushes, track rod ends etc) . Alfa would then void warranty claims on them if you had changed the GEO.

[dan]

I guess the point is that with an assisted rack it takes much less effort to stop the wheel tugging as the car follows cambers whereas with an unassisted setup there would be more wrestling with the wheel. I agree that technically it may not be "doing it" more or less, but the effect is more noticeable.

As far as I remember (and this is not from my engineering degree but from car magazine articles, so even if my memory is right it may not be terribly accurate) assisted racks are generally more prone to camber following because the geometry can be set up more aggressively than non-assisted setups - the power assistance mitigates the issue. I think we need @dan's input though.

I think thats a throwback to the olden days before people like renault and ford invented their fancy uprights that moved the KPI so that the effect of putting huge wheels and tyres didn't increase the scrub radius to the point where it wants to rip the wheel out of your hand. PAS mitigated the effects a little but you can't defeat physics.

Scrub radius is the difference between the centre line of the wheel and where the angle between the top and bottom ball joint intersect the ground. With mcpherson struts and wide wheels you end up with a big difference, the bigger the scrub radius the more leverage the wheel has on you.

I found that video interesting because I wasn't as impressed as I thought I would be, given its the epitome of everything I like about cars I thought I would have been in awe of it but I came away feeling a bit 'meh'. I'm not even that keen on the noise, it doesn't sound as good as an F1, it just seems to make lots of it, downshift blips sounded good but there wasn't enough of the induction noise you get in the F1, it just sounded like fucking loud exhaust all the time.

The talk of rattles and knocks being due to the rose jointed suspension isn't right, or rather it'll be because the joints are worn and need replacement. The lively front end will undoubtedly be down to geometry, its a tired car and is probably well overdue some maintenance. My business partner is currently seconded into GMA trying to fix their numerous production issues (and believe me they are numerous) because despite the unquestionable genius of Gordon, the cars are actually built by normal human beings that make all of the mistakes that normal human beings make.