Labour

[speedingfine]

Phrase of the day: gaggle of mongs

McDonnell saying there won't be a remain option on any 'people's vote' made me laugh/cry yesterday.

[ZedLeg]

The Momentum Labour types don't like the EU either so they're never going to support a remain vote.

[GG.]

I want the Tories out but I don’t want this bunch of fucking losers in. Or the Lib Dems. I think we should just let Lizzie 2 take over and run it properly.

But then we'll also end up with Charlie in charge...

I'm seriously considering voting Green next time. I actually find myself agreeing with a lot of what they say. I'm not sure how well that goes with also wanting a V8 though.

The best thing they could do at this point is split, let Jeremy toddle off with momentum and have a new New Labour with the Blairites. I still wouldn't vote for either but at least they might actually do something.

Do what? Cast themselves into oblivion? Neither of those rumps would carry enough votes to get elected. Perhaps in times gone by the Blairite moderates (if there were enough of them) would perhaps manage a coalition with the lib dems but those days are over with the lib dems a diminished force nowadays.

Thing is, the whole point of entryist trots like Mcdonnell and Corbyn is that they wrest control of the head of a larger body allowing them access to votes they would otherwise never have. They won't split off and the average rank and file MP won't either as they're directionless minnows without any party affiliation and would lose their seat in the next election against the replacement Labour candidate.

A split like the SDP/Lab division of the 80s would only ever be possible if you had a power struggle at the top of the party with respected senior moderate candidates that carried enough weight to pull a number of backbench MPs off to form a rival party. I can't readily identify any centrist/Blairite with gravitas like that in the Labour party currently.

The true irony is that despite Brexit being electoral cryptonite to the conservatives, Corbyn and McDonnell with their hostility to the EU are the only two men not easily able to capitalise on it as they have to be pro Brexit to facilitate their crpto-communist economic policies. The rest of the Labour party may not be but they haven't shown the capacity to change any of Corbyn or momentum's policies yet...

[NotoriousREV]

It annoys me to see Centrist has become an actual insult these days (typically Centrist Dad) as that probably best describes my politics, and I think in reality probably describes the politics of the majority of people:

- capitalism is good and has lifted more people out of poverty than any other economic system, but unfettered capitalism is bad if inequality becomes rampant
- I want a good free to use health care system
- the best free education in the world up to and including university/apprenticeships to give us the best educated and trained workforce we can have
- I want those out of work to be helped back into work by providing training and incentives
- I want those who can't work to be looked after
- I want our old folks looking after
- I'm happy to pay more tax to provide those things as long as the money is spent efficiently
- I want our police to be well funded and focussing on crimes that impact the community most
- I want equality of opportunity for all (but not equality of outcome)
- I want a free press that has absolute free speech but that uses that right responsibly instead of the utter shitbuckets we have now
- Where's my fucking unicorn? It had better be fetching me the moon on a stick.

[ZedLeg]

It annoys me to see Centrist has become an actual insult these days (typically Centrist Dad) as that probably best describes my politics, and I think in reality probably describes the politics of the majority of people:

I think the issue is that in the US centrist seems to be how those cunts who think that all opinions are valid and we should listen to and reason with the racists and bigots define themselves, so it's taken on a negative connotation everywhere.

I wouldn't describe myself as centrist but I agree with most of what you listed.

[Gavin]

It annoys me to see Centrist has become an actual insult these days (typically Centrist Dad) as that probably best describes my politics, and I think in reality probably describes the politics of the majority of people:

- capitalism is good and has lifted more people out of poverty than any other economic system, but unfettered capitalism is bad if inequality becomes rampant
- I want a good free to use health care system
- the best free education in the world up to and including university/apprenticeships to give us the best educated and trained workforce we can have
- I want those out of work to be helped back into work by providing training and incentives
- I want those who can't work to be looked after
- I want our old folks looking after
- I'm happy to pay more tax to provide those things as long as the money is spent efficiently
- I want our police to be well funded and focussing on crimes that impact the community most
- I want equality of opportunity for all (but not equality of outcome)
- I want a free press that has absolute free speech but that uses that right responsibly instead of the utter shitbuckets we have now
- Where's my fucking unicorn? It had better be fetching me the moon on a stick.

All of the above. I did like GG "crypto- communism" though! As far as I can tell, Corbyn's policies are less extreme than many EU states who are managing quite nicely from an economic standpoint but I have zero interest in getting into an argument or discussion as on here that means anyone vaguely left leaning (or centrist gong by my agreement with Rev) get harangued by soundbites from the Daily Torygraph and Mail's cutting room floors.

[Richard]

They all do and would do broadly the same thing when in charge. Their hands are tied by so many factors

Everything is ruined by the triablistic nature of politics now - the other side is always wrong. We’d have done the exact opposite. Aren’t they stupid. Etc etc

It’s all bollocks

They tow the party line, because nothing is more important than the party. The party being in charge is the most important thing, much more important than looking after the country/people

Almost every vote, I turn up to be counted, but spoil my ballot

The idea of democracy is important. It’s bollocks, currently. But it’s important

In the end, the winner of any modern election is the guy who can tell the best lies without getting caught out too early, and the guy who runs the best smear campaign

[GG.]

They all do and would do broadly the same thing when in charge. Their hands are tied by so many factors

I think that statement is borne out of being too young to remember the 1970s an adult. Proper left wing governments most certainly don't do "broadly the same thing". We just haven't had one of those since pre 1979.

[ZedLeg]

Do what? Cast themselves into oblivion? Neither of those rumps would carry enough votes to get elected. Perhaps in times gone by the Blairite moderates (if there were enough of them) would perhaps manage a coalition with the lib dems but those days are over with the lib dems a diminished force nowadays.

Thing is, the whole point of entryist trots like Mcdonnell and Corbyn is that they wrest control of the head of a larger body allowing them access to votes they would otherwise never have. They won't split off and the average rank and file MP won't either as they're directionless minnows without any party affiliation and would lose their seat in the next election against the replacement Labour candidate.

A split like the SDP/Lab division of the 80s would only ever be possible if you had a power struggle at the top of the party with respected senior moderate candidates that carried enough weight to pull a number of backbench MPs off to form a rival party. I can't readily identify any centrist/Blairite with gravitas like that in the Labour party currently.

The true irony is that despite Brexit being electoral cryptonite to the conservatives, Corbyn and McDonnell with their hostility to the EU are the only two men not easily able to capitalise on it as they have to be pro Brexit to facilitate their crpto-communist economic policies. The rest of the Labour party may not be but they haven't shown the capacity to change any of Corbyn or momentum's policies yet...

Can't really argue with any of that. I'd like to see a more representative parliament than we have just now but we're unlikely to see it with the monolithic big parties just going back and forth.

It's even worse up here tbh, nobody can get close to the SNP and the LAB/CON satellites don't seem to care.

[dinny_g]

I agree with most of what you listed.

Gotta ask Zed, which bit don't you agree with ??

[ZedLeg]

Mostly just splitting hairs about capitalism TBH, not entirely sure I can be bothered getting into an argument about it though .

[NotoriousREV]

Mostly just splitting hairs about capitalism TBH, not entirely sure I can be bothered getting into an argument about it though .

When you can show me a better system that is 100% proven to work better, I'll concede the point I know it's shit but it's the best we've had so far.

[Richard]

They all do and would do broadly the same thing when in charge. Their hands are tied by so many factors

I think that statement is borne out of being too young to remember the 1970s an adult. Proper left wing governments most certainly don't do "broadly the same thing". We just haven't had one of those since pre 1979.

This is possibly true

I am too young to remember that

However, we’re not voting for 1970’s parties

[NotoriousREV]

They all do and would do broadly the same thing when in charge. Their hands are tied by so many factors

I think that statement is borne out of being too young to remember the 1970s an adult. Proper left wing governments most certainly don't do "broadly the same thing". We just haven't had one of those since pre 1979.

This is possibly true

I am too young to remember that

However, we’re not voting for 1970’s parties

In terms of Corbyn's Labour, we very much ARE voting for 70s parties. Or 2018 Venezuela.

[GG.]

I think that statement is borne out of being too young to remember the 1970s an adult. Proper left wing governments most certainly don't do "broadly the same thing". We just haven't had one of those since pre 1979.

This is possibly true

I am too young to remember that

However, we’re not voting for 1970’s parties

In terms of Corbyn's Labour, we very much ARE voting for 70s parties. Or 2018 Venezuela.

RIC

[ZedLeg]

I know it's shit but it's the best we've had so far.

Aye, that's fair enough. I'll keep holding my breath for the friendly Star Trek socialism to arrive though .

[Simon]

I've steered a lot towards the LibDems. I've voted for them in local elections in the last 2. I know they're lacking support at the moment, but that's because of all the angry students and hippies who turned away from them after the coalition (whilst ignoring that they WERE in a coalition and don't get to have 100% of their manifesto through, but did get something like 80%, which is incredible considering their share of the vote).

Politically I'm probably centre-right, and when TM got the leadership she stood on the steps of no. 10 and made a speech that was a massive play for the centre ground. She then chose to ignore it since then. Plus she ran just about the worst GE campaign in memory (yes, I know she 'won', but it was still terrible).

[PaulJ]

It annoys me to see Centrist has become an actual insult these days (typically Centrist Dad) as that probably best describes my politics, and I think in reality probably describes the politics of the majority of people:

- capitalism is good and has lifted more people out of poverty than any other economic system, but unfettered capitalism is bad if inequality becomes rampant
- I want a good free to use health care system
- the best free education in the world up to and including university/apprenticeships to give us the best educated and trained workforce we can have
- I want those out of work to be helped back into work by providing training and incentives
- I want those who can't work to be looked after
- I want our old folks looking after
- I'm happy to pay more tax to provide those things as long as the money is spent efficiently
- I want our police to be well funded and focussing on crimes that impact the community most
- I want equality of opportunity for all (but not equality of outcome)
- I want a free press that has absolute free speech but that uses that right responsibly instead of the utter shitbuckets we have now
- Where's my fucking unicorn? It had better be fetching me the moon on a stick.

I just realised I'm probably a 'just left of Centrist' chap. (Not a very fashionable thing to be these days). When I see the way large groups of people express themselves and behave these days I'm reminded of the following quote: "How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think". To save you looking it up it was by that popular monobollock Adolph Hitler.

[PreacherCain]

It annoys me to see Centrist has become an actual insult these days (typically Centrist Dad) as that probably best describes my politics, and I think in reality probably describes the politics of the majority of people:

- capitalism is good and has lifted more people out of poverty than any other economic system, but unfettered capitalism is bad if inequality becomes rampant
- I want a good free to use health care system
- the best free education in the world up to and including university/apprenticeships to give us the best educated and trained workforce we can have
- I want those out of work to be helped back into work by providing training and incentives
- I want those who can't work to be looked after
- I want our old folks looking after
- I'm happy to pay more tax to provide those things as long as the money is spent efficiently
- I want our police to be well funded and focussing on crimes that impact the community most
- I want equality of opportunity for all (but not equality of outcome)
- I want a free press that has absolute free speech but that uses that right responsibly instead of the utter shitbuckets we have now
- Where's my fucking unicorn? It had better be fetching me the moon on a stick.

St. Thomas More called, he wants his concept of a nonexistent ideal society back.

FWIW I agree with you - I'd add a simplified and universally applied tax code, but then I'm a boring bastard. I just object to seeing individuals and firms being able legally to avoid paying their due.

[NotoriousREV]

It annoys me to see Centrist has become an actual insult these days (typically Centrist Dad) as that probably best describes my politics, and I think in reality probably describes the politics of the majority of people:

- capitalism is good and has lifted more people out of poverty than any other economic system, but unfettered capitalism is bad if inequality becomes rampant
- I want a good free to use health care system
- the best free education in the world up to and including university/apprenticeships to give us the best educated and trained workforce we can have
- I want those out of work to be helped back into work by providing training and incentives
- I want those who can't work to be looked after
- I want our old folks looking after
- I'm happy to pay more tax to provide those things as long as the money is spent efficiently
- I want our police to be well funded and focussing on crimes that impact the community most
- I want equality of opportunity for all (but not equality of outcome)
- I want a free press that has absolute free speech but that uses that right responsibly instead of the utter shitbuckets we have now
- Where's my fucking unicorn? It had better be fetching me the moon on a stick.

St. Thomas More called, he wants his concept of a nonexistent ideal society back.

FWIW I agree with you - I'd add a simplified and universally applied tax code, but then I'm a boring bastard. I just object to seeing individuals and firms being able legally to avoid paying their due.

Congratulations, you're my new Chancellor of the Exchequer. JL is foreign sec, obvs.