Bye Bye Rachel Reeves

[V8Granite]

I’m also curious what people are called if they earn above £45k, are we not still “working people”? Are MPs themselves not working.. okay, poor example!

As people reach a point in life where their kids are 18+, or WFH works well for many and opportunities for a better QoL (weather, cost of living etc) are better and increasingly accessible eg Portugal D7 or D8 or Golden Visa, Spain Digital Nomad Visa, Italy €100k flat rate tax, France Long Stay Visa .. how much can Reeves squeeze out of her Golden goose than earns £50k+ before some depart? We all know Total tax revenue doesn’t keep increasing with higher tax rates; people can, and will, leave or find alternative options than being paid direct income.. and then Reeves will come back next year and say “we need more” again, and again until voted out.

We keep hearing how all the mega rich will leave the second they have any increase in tax, but why haven’t they already gone? is it the weather?

Didn't we have the largest amount of millionaires leave the country this year ?

We lost 10,000 or thereabouts. So 10,000 high net worth people not giving us VAT from Swarovski doodle collars and expensive Bentleys. We need their money.

Dave!

[V8Granite]

As someone who pays very high tax in Norway, the UK is catching up and the services provided are not a patch on what Norway provide.

It's like drilling for oil and gas is a good thing to promote. Although there is a push from idiots to do the same in Norway now.

Dave!

[GG.]

I’m also curious what people are called if they earn above £45k, are we not still “working people”? Are MPs themselves not working.. okay, poor example!

As people reach a point in life where their kids are 18+, or WFH works well for many and opportunities for a better QoL (weather, cost of living etc) are better and increasingly accessible eg Portugal D7 or D8 or Golden Visa, Spain Digital Nomad Visa, Italy €100k flat rate tax, France Long Stay Visa .. how much can Reeves squeeze out of her Golden goose than earns £50k+ before some depart? We all know Total tax revenue doesn’t keep increasing with higher tax rates; people can, and will, leave or find alternative options than being paid direct income.. and then Reeves will come back next year and say “we need more” again, and again until voted out.

We keep hearing how all the mega rich will leave the second they have any increase in tax, but why haven’t they already gone? is it the weather?

They have and are.

https://www.fnlondon.com/articles/goldm ... w-66bd6df9

Most of those that have already gone have reacted to the non-dom change. The subsequent ratchet up of income tax would be more likely to stimulate a different category of wealthy to leave but likely to have a larger fiscal impact.

As Ian mentioned, it also affects behaviour as well as prompting people to move away, e.g. financially at this point it probably makes more sense for me to rent property rather than buy another house given the stamp duty and potential "Mansion Tax". That again affects the tax take.

[ZedLeg]

Yous are ridiculous.

You don’t want to pay the tax and we shouldn’t make the people who can afford it pay it, so we should be squeezing people who are already struggling to cover their cost of living to pay more?

[Jobbo]

financially at this point it probably makes more sense for me to rent property rather than buy another house given the stamp duty and potential "Mansion Tax". That again affects the tax take.

That's a good point - if the mansion tax is levied like Council Tax then tenants would pay it. I wonder how it will work?

[240PP]

Yous are ridiculous.

You don’t want to pay the tax and we shouldn’t make the people who can afford it pay it, so we should be squeezing people who are already struggling to cover their cost of living to pay more?

I don’t want to pay any more tax, no. It’s irrelevant whether I can afford to or not.

It’s not too much to ask for the government to spend wisely. Well, it clearly is, but it shouldn’t be.

[GG.]

Yous are ridiculous.

You don’t want to pay the tax and we shouldn’t make the people who can afford it pay it, so we should be squeezing people who are already struggling to cover their cost of living to pay more?

I think a lot hangs on the "pay more" in your sentence. Many (most?) in society at this point are paying practically nothing in tax and most take out more than they put in. It is more a case that they need to "pay something" into the system. People have pointed out that we have a more concentrated tax take than pretty much anywhere else - countries like France that have higher tax revenues tax everybody more.

Ultimately more people need to work harder and pay more tax across the board if you want to plough the levels of money into public services that you would advocate.

[GG.]

Yous are ridiculous.

You don’t want to pay the tax and we shouldn’t make the people who can afford it pay it, so we should be squeezing people who are already struggling to cover their cost of living to pay more?

I don’t want to pay any more tax, no. It’s irrelevant whether I can afford to or not.

It’s not too much to ask for the government to spend wisely. Well, it clearly is, but it shouldn’t be.

Exactly - the pure socialist (communist?) view is that anything you make will be swept and redistributed down to a level that the government deems you "need". Unfortunately that's not why people get out of bed in the morning (or in my case work 14 hour days, weekends and holidays) hence why socialist systems ultimately underperform or fail entirely depending on how far you take it.

[GG.]

financially at this point it probably makes more sense for me to rent property rather than buy another house given the stamp duty and potential "Mansion Tax". That again affects the tax take.

That's a good point - if the mansion tax is levied like Council Tax then tenants would pay it. I wonder how it will work?

I think its all looking unlikely at this point that they'd introduce a novel tax and true to recent form (for parties of all stripes) they'll do something iterative and administratively easier like doubling top band rates so that they just tweak the existing system.

[ZedLeg]

Yous are ridiculous.

You don’t want to pay the tax and we shouldn’t make the people who can afford it pay it, so we should be squeezing people who are already struggling to cover their cost of living to pay more?

I don’t want to pay any more tax, no. It’s irrelevant whether I can afford to or not.

It’s not too much to ask for the government to spend wisely. Well, it clearly is, but it shouldn’t be.

For what it’s worth I’m not saying that those in the middle should be paying more. I’m definitely saying those at the top should be paying more.

I agree that the government should be spending their money better, even though I’m sure we’d have a deep disagreement on what that means

[GG.]

Yous are ridiculous.

You don’t want to pay the tax and we shouldn’t make the people who can afford it pay it, so we should be squeezing people who are already struggling to cover their cost of living to pay more?

I don’t want to pay any more tax, no. It’s irrelevant whether I can afford to or not.

It’s not too much to ask for the government to spend wisely. Well, it clearly is, but it shouldn’t be.

For what it’s worth I’m not saying that those in the middle should be paying more. I’m definitely saying those at the top should be paying more.

I agree that the government should be spending their money better, even though I’m sure we’d have a deep disagreement on what that means

Ok that's fine but let's have equality of effort as well. How many hours do you work in a typical week? I think it would be just as fair to insist that if you, say, have a 40 hour working week you should have to do another 20+ so you match what I and many other higher earners do. If I can contribute more money you can contribute more time, right? Instead of dreaming of a nirvana of a 4 day week let's pivot to the Chinese 996 and increase our productivity.

Oh let me guess - you probably wouldn't want to be coerced into doing that...

[ZedLeg]

Ok GG, you’re right. Everyone on low wages is a layabout who should work harder.

[GG.]

As a matter of statistics the average UK worker works 36.6 hours a week so factually there is seemingly much more time to give if we're working on the basis that everyone has to pull their socks up and pitch in to get the country out of a rut.

Everyone should be treated equally right? Right?

I am of course not being serious but trying to demonstrate that this kind of mindset doesn't work. People contribute in different ways - some people work more hours, so generate wealth in different ways but saying that those who earn more should carry on paying more and more in is just as silly as saying well everyone should be required to work more and more hours.

[ZedLeg]

You might want to make working yourself to death for a nicer house a virtue but I wouldn’t say it should be national policy, no.

[GG.]

And, economically, what happens if I don't do that because you incentivise me not to? Nor all the others that currently do?

I'll give you an answer - GDP reduces and everyone will have to pay more tax much further down the income distribution.

[ZedLeg]

Also consider that if you’re on a decent salary you’ll have a decent pension etc. a lot of people working low paid jobs will work til they die.

[ZedLeg]

And, economically, what happens if I don't do that because you incentivise me not to? Nor all the others that currently do?

I'll give you an answer - GDP reduces and everyone will have to pay more tax much further down the income distribution.

This is just me being a wacky radical again but I think we should be working towards a society where no one has to work like that.

[Rich B]

I’m also curious what people are called if they earn above £45k, are we not still “working people”? Are MPs themselves not working.. okay, poor example!

As people reach a point in life where their kids are 18+, or WFH works well for many and opportunities for a better QoL (weather, cost of living etc) are better and increasingly accessible eg Portugal D7 or D8 or Golden Visa, Spain Digital Nomad Visa, Italy €100k flat rate tax, France Long Stay Visa .. how much can Reeves squeeze out of her Golden goose than earns £50k+ before some depart? We all know Total tax revenue doesn’t keep increasing with higher tax rates; people can, and will, leave or find alternative options than being paid direct income.. and then Reeves will come back next year and say “we need more” again, and again until voted out.

We keep hearing how all the mega rich will leave the second they have any increase in tax, but why haven’t they already gone? is it the weather?

They have and are.

https://www.fnlondon.com/articles/goldm ... w-66bd6df9

Most of those that have already gone have reacted to the non-dom change. The subsequent ratchet up of income tax would be more likely to stimulate a different category of wealthy to leave but likely to have a larger fiscal impact.

As Ian mentioned, it also affects behaviour as well as prompting people to move away, e.g. financially at this point it probably makes more sense for me to rent property rather than buy another house given the stamp duty and potential "Mansion Tax". That again affects the tax take.

i can’t read the article, but currently It must be really cheap or really attractive to live here then. Otherwise why haven’t all of them left.

There is clearly more money or a better quality of life to be had by staying in this country then leaving for every single mega rich person, otherwise they’d have gone.

i refuse to believe that can’t be a flexed a little. a “tiny percentage” on earnings over a “ridiculous amount” could easily earn us a chunk, and leaving the country because you’re being asked for a tiny amount of your ridiculous amount of earnings is pretty pathetic - it’s not like asking someone poor to choose between heating and eating ffs.

[GG.]

I understand your thinking but unfortunately it doesn't make enough of an effect unless it affects a broad enough swathe of people - i.e. Reeves looking at adjusting rates for anyone earning over 45k a year.

Ultimately I think most people see a clear tipping point where you come out with less than half after tax. A good example is that if I do move house this year, including SDLT I think I will pay over 75% of my annual gross earnings in tax. That's not accounting for council tax, VAT or any other indirect taxes. I think anyone reasonable would see the cliff edge that sort of taxation level is creating.

[dan]

You obviously earn good money, which is great, I wish I earned a lot more than I do, but you’re not being taxed 75% are you? That’s just misrepresenting the situation for sympathy.

Presumably you’re going to make a nice big profit on your house which you’ll have to pay for, it’s painful but it’s a by product of making a load of money. I wish I had a massive tax bill and a huge amount of stamp duty to pay, maybe one day I will and I’ll get to complain about it, who knows.

The whole millionaires leaving the country shtick is getting tiresome too, the projected 16’000 that were supposed to leave this year accounts for 0.6% of the countries millionaires, when you put it like that it doesn’t sound quite as incendiary though.

I don’t affiliate with any party particularly and I agree that labours comms department is woeful, but at least it feels like adults are in charge now unlike the last half a dozen idiots that tried to run the country. The manufactured outrage that seems to afflict everyone nowadays though absolutely baffles me. I