Bye Bye Rachel Reeves

[GG.]

There is a danger of people reading too much into things but then again all of that speech would have been worded very carefully so perhaps not...

There was a former member of the MPC (up until last year) on the BBC straight after the speech this morning that was very illuminating. He pointed out that there were multiple references to measures in the budget needing to be non-inflationary, so that in effect rules our VAT hikes as they filter directly through into higher prices, don't pass go don't collect £200 (and which already are high at 20% having previously been hiked from their pre-crisis norm of 17.5%, never to go back down). So that leaves NI and Income Tax - but I suppose we knew that already. Looking like adding 2p to income tax and removing from NI to widen the base is the most likely option, the question is what other horrors around the edges will be added to make it "fair" (i.e. how much damage do they see fit to do to other wealth creators to justify it in the eyes of their socialist brethren).

The even more illuminating thing, which I wasn't even aware of, was that in quantum terms - the fiscal headroom Reeves decided to leave herself in re-writing the "rules" previously was a mere 10bn. This is approximately 1/3 what previous chancellors have left as leeway to absorb volatility previously so having to come back this time was a result of that decision, not Covid, Brexit, Productivity, etc. which were all known quantities at the time of the last budget. The fact that bond yields are high is again likely because of that and given her promise not to increase tax the bond market had to assume that would come in the form of more borrowing - i.e. also not just a Truss phenomenon. Bond yields already down since this speech (which shouldn't be taken as a vindication of Reeves except in the narrow sense that she's said she's not going to borrow more).

Also on productivity - she made a big deal of it not being a big "puzzle" and all relates to underinvestment. The MPC member debunked that pretty quickly noting that the causes of lower than expected productivity have fluctuated over time and currently the main driver is the public sector (i.e. waste and inefficiency) and the main bulk of that was the NHS. If you distill that down, what he's saying is that we have shovelled lots more money into a black hole and have nothing to show for it, i.e. NHS reform would be the biggest driver or productivity increase - they need to do more with what they have and certainly not a case of taxing more to throw even more into a cavernous maw.

[Alex88]

Basically confirmed then. A highly significant pledge broken, and obviously not her fault at all and they should be exonerated all of responsibility.

She has dug her own grave; the myriad speeches she and Kier gave saying they wouldn't come looking come looking for more in taxes, has completely undermined her economic credibility.

I can't imagine the markets will respond well. Yes, you'll patch over the cracks temporarily, but the back tracking in itself will only further add to the narrative that they aren't equipped to handle the economy. She is demonstrating this in real time.

Also cant see this doing much for revenue growth as consumers will surely become increasingly conscious of their reduction in spending power, thus contributing to the deficit further with lower tax receipts.

Will have to see what is actually announced.

[GG.]

Also cant see this doing much for revenue growth as consumers will surely become increasingly conscious of their reduction in spending power, thus contributing to the deficit further with lower tax receipts.

Traders looking at the BoE's next rate move agree as they're predicting a further reduction reasonably quickly to counteract the damage to spending that will result. Question is whether that is ends up being inflationary again as we're already running well above target.

[Alex88]

Also cant see this doing much for revenue growth as consumers will surely become increasingly conscious of their reduction in spending power, thus contributing to the deficit further with lower tax receipts.

Traders looking at the BoE's next rate move agree as they're predicting a further reduction reasonably quickly to counteract the damage to spending that will result. Question is whether that is ends up being inflationary again as we're already running well above target.

I am not surprised. Her short term-ism will see her squeeze a cohort of taxpayers, including those who are less able to absorb a reduction to their disposable income, all while the economy is already stagnant. She could push us towards recession now. And with a potential increase in the cost of borrowing, when we're already borrowing more, I think 2026 could be a disastrous year for them, and the public.

[Alex88]

Leaving the budget this late was a mistake, now they have weeks of rumours about tax rises to contend with. All the while the uncertainty can’t help the economy. Whole speech today was frankly pointless unless.

Agreed, and the fact she even had to call this speech was ridiculous and testament to their incompetence. I've only got a minute or so in, and listening to her talk about lowering the cost of living and reducing national debt while simultaneously pre-announcing a budget that will result in the exact opposite, really is one for the ages

[Alex88]

There is a danger of people reading too much into things but then again all of that speech would have been worded very carefully so perhaps not...

There was a former member of the MPC (up until last year) on the BBC straight after the speech this morning that was very illuminating. He pointed out that there were multiple references to measures in the budget needing to be non-inflationary, so that in effect rules our VAT hikes as they filter directly through into higher prices, don't pass go don't collect £200 (and which already are high at 20% having previously been hiked from their pre-crisis norm of 17.5%, never to go back down). So that leaves NI and Income Tax - but I suppose we knew that already. Looking like adding 2p to income tax and removing from NI to widen the base is the most likely option, the question is what other horrors around the edges will be added to make it "fair" (i.e. how much damage do they see fit to do to other wealth creators to justify it in the eyes of their socialist brethren).

The even more illuminating thing, which I wasn't even aware of, was that in quantum terms - the fiscal headroom Reeves decided to leave herself in re-writing the "rules" previously was a mere 10bn. This is approximately 1/3 what previous chancellors have left as leeway to absorb volatility previously so having to come back this time was a result of that decision, not Covid, Brexit, Productivity, etc. which were all known quantities at the time of the last budget. The fact that bond yields are high is again likely because of that and given her promise not to increase tax the bond market had to assume that would come in the form of more borrowing - i.e. also not just a Truss phenomenon. Bond yields already down since this speech (which shouldn't be taken as a vindication of Reeves except in the narrow sense that she's said she's not going to borrow more).

Also on productivity - she made a big deal of it not being a big "puzzle" and all relates to underinvestment. The MPC member debunked that pretty quickly noting that the causes of lower than expected productivity have fluctuated over time and currently the main driver is the public sector (i.e. waste and inefficiency) and the main bulk of that was the NHS. If you distill that down, what he's saying is that we have shovelled lots more money into a black hole and have nothing to show for it, i.e. NHS reform would be the biggest driver or productivity increase - they need to do more with what they have and certainly not a case of taxing more to throw even more into a cavernous maw.

I'll check that interview out. Interesting point regarding the headroom - I saw a post on Instagram the other day from Sunak talking about that, too. He was saying that £10b headroom is tiny considering that forecasting errors can be as much as £20b, and when laid out against the context of total government spending of £1200b, it just isn't enough, and has also fuelled speculation about tax rises and contributed to low confidence.

[GG.]

One comment I liked was "she's just rolled the pitch with a rotavator"

[Alex88]

Saw this earlier, made me chuckle

[jamcg]

Reform party’s take on her. I mean they’re not wrong…. Well this time anyway

[Barry]

Impotent rant style, as a solo earner, above that threshold, and never claimed benefits, I'm getting more than a little fed up of being treated like an endless money pit to fix Gov. incompetence.

I'm certainly looking to where I can save money, reduce costs, which means,if others in my position do the same, the economy will suffer further. I'm at least fortunate that I have options.

[Simon]

You can be sure that it'll be further talk of 'broadest shoulders' etc, ignoring the elephant in the room of:

1) Stagnant wage growth in the uk, when you exclude those on the minimum wage
2) Extremely low levels of income taxation by those on lower incomes, massively skewing the burden to those on higher wages.

She needs to work on addressing both of those.

[Rich B]

Impotent rant style, as a solo earner, above that threshold, and never claimed benefits, I'm getting more than a little fed up of being treated like an endless money pit to fix Gov. incompetence.

I'm certainly looking to where I can save money, reduce costs, which means,if others in my position do the same, the economy will suffer further. I'm at least fortunate that I have options.

it’ll always be that way - the poor haven’t got any money to take and the gov are scared shitless of upsetting the rich.

BANG! there we are in the middle!!

[240PP]

Impotent rant style, as a solo earner, above that threshold, and never claimed benefits, I'm getting more than a little fed up of being treated like an endless money pit to fix Gov. incompetence.

I'm certainly looking to where I can save money, reduce costs, which means,if others in my position do the same, the economy will suffer further. I'm at least fortunate that I have options.

All of this. I’ll be offsetting any rise in income tax by putting more into my work pension via salary sacrifice. Which will mean less money to bar/restaurant owners and online retailers etc. She can FRO.

I mean, she/they will likely come for my pension too in the near future but we’ll cross that bridge

[IanF]

I’m also curious what people are called if they earn above £45k, are we not still “working people”? Are MPs themselves not working.. okay, poor example!

As people reach a point in life where their kids are 18+, or WFH works well for many and opportunities for a better QoL (weather, cost of living etc) are better and increasingly accessible eg Portugal D7 or D8 or Golden Visa, Spain Digital Nomad Visa, Italy €100k flat rate tax, France Long Stay Visa .. how much can Reeves squeeze out of her Golden goose than earns £50k+ before some depart? We all know Total tax revenue doesn’t keep increasing with higher tax rates; people can, and will, leave or find alternative options than being paid direct income.. and then Reeves will come back next year and say “we need more” again, and again until voted out.

I actually think Starmer has the balls to chop through a lot of the current wastage we see from the public sector, but every time he attempts something it’s diluted to the point it’s either ineffective or counter productive.. and I don’t think the Conservatives or Reform have a clue what to actually do and we would be in a worse situation if they were in power..

What a great time to be alive

[integrale_evo]

800,000 more people unemployed due to sickness at the moment than in 2019 was quoted earlier on the radio. Insane

[GG.]

"sickness"

EFA

[Rich B]

I’m also curious what people are called if they earn above £45k, are we not still “working people”? Are MPs themselves not working.. okay, poor example!

As people reach a point in life where their kids are 18+, or WFH works well for many and opportunities for a better QoL (weather, cost of living etc) are better and increasingly accessible eg Portugal D7 or D8 or Golden Visa, Spain Digital Nomad Visa, Italy €100k flat rate tax, France Long Stay Visa .. how much can Reeves squeeze out of her Golden goose than earns £50k+ before some depart? We all know Total tax revenue doesn’t keep increasing with higher tax rates; people can, and will, leave or find alternative options than being paid direct income.. and then Reeves will come back next year and say “we need more” again, and again until voted out.

We keep hearing how all the mega rich will leave the second they have any increase in tax, but why haven’t they already gone? is it the weather?

[Alex88]

800,000 more people unemployed due to sickness at the moment than in 2019 was quoted earlier on the radio. Insane

Absolutely nuts. And it's going to increase sharply by the end of the decade.

I think a big issue is the public's perception of the system. It's gone from being a safety net - there to cover those in genuine need, to an entitlement based system. The public now view the system as 'what can I get out of it'.

Not everyone, obviously. But a lot do and it takes away from those who have no choice but to rely on the state to get by. It's become a choice rather necessity, for some. Not helped by the fact that the net is cast so wide it encompasses a lot of people.

And as someone who has suffered with chronic, clinically diagnosed anxiety and OCD, both of which I've battled for years, I've never considered seeing if I can claim some form of benefits. Combined with my ulcerative colitis, I probably could if I pushed for it. But, I am perfectly capable of working so have never claimed anything.

[Alex88]

Probably an unpopular opinion but having watched her speech in full and her interview with Andrew Marr, I felt a bit sorry for Reeves, even if she is going to fuck us all in a few weeks time.

She painted herself into a corner and is going to be forced into a most humiliating U-turn which could have pretty awful consequences. She's out of her depth and came across very jittery and looked unwell. Can't be any good for her physically.

I don't think Kier wants her to resign out of fear it'll cause further instability. So all or nothing, maybe.

[mik]

Impotent rant style, as a solo earner, above that threshold, and never claimed benefits, I'm getting more than a little fed up of being treated like an endless money pit to fix Gov. incompetence.

I'm certainly looking to where I can save money, reduce costs, which means,if others in my position do the same, the economy will suffer further. I'm at least fortunate that I have options.

it’ll always be that way - the poor haven’t got any money to take and the gov are scared shitless of upsetting the rich.

BANG! there we are in the middle!!

I was selfishly hoping that any tax increases implemented by Reeves might effectively level things up a little (thanks to our lovely Scottish Government deciding some years back that anyone other than the lowest earners should pay quite a bit more in tax than our rest-of-UK colleagues), but I heard last night that any increases are likely to be mirrored up here. Which did of course fill me with delight.

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