Israel and Palestine

[dinny_g]

I've been struggling with this one for a while now and no matter what I read, I still can't get enough of a clear picture to be able to say I understand the current crisis - or more importantly, what it's going to take to end it.

I've read "Dawn of the Promised Land" by Ben Wicks (Brilliant book about the Middle East and how we got here) and have read article after article online but I'm still not completely clear. I've thought about asking cousins and friends who sport Palestine badges etc but don't want to get drawn into something I can't get out of . So I thought I'd ask here as this is a very knowledgeable and experienced place.

A BBC report framed the current impasse as this:

• The hard-line militant Palestine side - Hamas etc. - stick to the mantra "River to the Sea" which, If I understand correctly, means the entire Jewish population of Israel either staying put to be subjugated or moving onto somewhere else and the whole region becomes / reverts to Mandatory Palestine. Israel is no more

• The Palestinian Authority do support the two state model - exact borders will still be a problem - but in theory, it allows for 2 nations to coexist in the same place, no mass displacement or subjugation in either place (in theory). This is also the favoured international solution

• The Israeli government do NOT support the 2 state model because they believe as soon as fully recognised Palestinian state is created, then Hamas et al will take over and there will now have an official recognised country on their border from which they can continue their efforts to gain "From the River to the Sea" etc.

So I think the best way to summarise my understanding, or lack of thereof is this is to ask this:

"What will it take for you to take off your Palestine badge ? What does the "end" look like - not victory or loss - just the end so you can say "We'll thank God that's sorted?

Because I really don't know.

[V8Granite]

It’s because the Jews are involved, people have a hatred for them which is tribal/ religious or however you want to see it. If it was Egypt doing this then you wouldn’t have the same news articles, hatred for Egyptians etc.

The Arab states aren’t helping so it’s clearly a situation they don’t agree with.

I log it under religion, no logic or sense involved.

The only thing I’m surprised at, not wanting to believe is the lack of reporting of Hamas stealing the aid and everyone blaming Israel, it’s such one sided reporting but I don’t understand why they would report things like that ?

Dave!

[DeskJockey]

I don't think there is a viable solution currently. On the Israeli side hard-line right-wingers are running the show, much of it against the will of the majority of people. While most agree with what they did against Iran, the Palestinian situation is a very different matter altogether.

The two-state solution leaves Israel strategically vulnerable as the pinch point will be narrow and could permit an attacker to cut the country in two.

On the Palestinian side the political fragmentation and their hardliners makes it impossible to do much to improve the situation.

All I can see is that the seeds for generations of hate and anger are continually sown, and the people who are doing it will not be around to experience the outcome.

And as everyone and their dog have a finger in the pie the outside support/influence is making it ever harder to come to a meaningful path forwards.

[unzippy]

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/9/9 ... atars-doha

What's the definition of an act of war?

[DaveE]

Insane

Just watching The Rest is Politics podcast discussing this

[Simon]

Apparently killed the head negotiator for Hamas, so will give Bibi another excuse to continue the war and blame Hamas when the hostages aren't freed.

[RobYob]

You'd wonder how welcome the US base will remain if there are inbound missiles that are now labeled "do not intercept"

[V8Granite]

There is a very common phrase.

You will see peace in Palestine when they love their children more than they hate the Jews.

It won’t end, it’s tribal and a good earner for the idiots orchestrating it.

Dave!

[unzippy]

You will see peace in Palestine when they love their children more than they hate the Jews.

Do you think that will happen while Israel is flattening Gaza or after?

[ZedLeg]

Aye, those Gazans are causing this aren’t they

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/ ... and-munich

[V8Granite]

It’s a war where Hamas are using civilians as human shields, Hamas ultimately control the country.

Hamas senior leader Khaled Mashal stated on October 19, 2023 that he views the current loss of civilian life in Gaza – brought about by Hamas' strategy of using human shields – as essential: “No nation is liberated without sacrifices... In all wars, there are some civilian victims. We are not responsible for them.”

What are Israel to do when the doctrine of Hamas is to eradicate them from the face of the earth ? As they publicly state.

I don’t want Israel to disappear so they are doing what they can to prevent that. Them being blamed for famine and starvation is ridiculous when Palestine has so many other borders. It’s a very sad situation caused by religion, not exactly uncommon.

I hope it all stops very soon but that’s a bit too optimistic I fear, not out for an argument, it’s the Middle East, this kind of stuff always happens.

Dave!