Ukraine

[Brannen]

I've seen he's now back pedalling and saying he didn't mention UK. I thought only the UK and France had committed to sending troops. Not sure who else he'd be aiming that statement about...

[IanF]

Is there some sweepstake in the Whitehouse to see who can make the stupidest comment? Fvcking prick!

[Rich B]

Is there some sweepstake in the Whitehouse to see who can make the stupidest comment? Fvcking prick!

Is this an hourly contest?

[Sundayjumper]

Is there some sweepstake in the Whitehouse to see who can make the stupidest comment? Fvcking prick!

The stupidest comment SO FAR.

[dinny_g]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/ ... lks-russia

[Beany]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/ ... lks-russia

Oh, is a jab from Ukraine?

And we remember the moment when things changed when President Trump provided Ukraine with Javelins.

Guess what Trump was impeached over. Remember that?

At the outset of the conversation on July 25, President Zelensky thanked President Trump for the “great support in the area of defense” provided by the United States to date. He then indicated that Ukraine would soon be prepared to purchase additional Javelin anti-tank missiles from the United States as part of this defense cooperation. President Trump immediately responded with his own request: “I would like you to do us a favor though,” which was “to find out what happened” with alleged Ukrainian interference in the 2016 election.

President Trump then asked President Zelensky “to look into” former Vice President Biden’s role in encouraging Ukraine to remove a prosecutor widely viewed by the United States and numerous European partners to be corrupt. In so doing, President Trump gave currency to a baseless allegation that Vice President Biden wanted to remove the corrupt prosecutor because he was investigating Burisma, a company on whose board the Vice President’s son sat at the time.

https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/201 ... annotated/

It's a very specific thing to mention in that context, at least. Could have mentioned anything at all, but he went specifically for Javelins. And Trump can't say a damned thing about it or he'll have to have that dragged back up again, and have his face rubbed in it.

Sometimes I forget that while he might never have practised, Zelenskyy does have a law degree...

[Mito Man]

Zelenskyy now wanting to sign a minerals deal with Trump and bending over backwards for him. This whole thing stinks more than a rotting fish market.
So now he wants the deal, in exchange for what will be a very weak ceasefire. America will plunder Ukraine for the however many years. Zelenskyy will be replaced with a Russia backed puppet and turn into another Belarus - which I imagine is the only option for lasting peace under that option.

[RobYob]

Zelenskyy now wanting to sign a minerals deal with Trump and bending over backwards for him. *snip*

I don't doubt Zelensky will say whatever is necessary to get what Ukraine needs. He and his advisors doubtless decided what was on the table last friday was not going to be Trump's final offer.

Trump and his toadies are truly disgusting and corrupt. Doesn't mean everything goes their own way.

Caveated that I have hopeless optimism bias.

[Beany]

Pretty sure Zelenskyy was going to sign a mineral deal - possibly the same one - before the drooling fuckwits in the room started banging on about suits and showing respect and saying thankyou - they were the ones who booted him out before it could be signed.

[RobYob]

Pretty sure Zelenskyy was going to sign a mineral deal - possibly the same one - before the drooling fuckwits in the room started banging on about suits and showing respect and saying thankyou - they were the ones who booted him out before it could be signed.

I wouldn't be so sure, afaik the mineral deal didn't give any security gauruntees so wasn't particularly useful for Ukraine's future safety.

The drooling fuckwittery was probably a bonus in terms of gaining more sympathy for the next round of negotiations.

[Beany]

Yeah you might be right there - the details are a bit fuzzy on what was agreed, as I think that was what was meant to be being discussed before it all went a bit Pete Tong

[Sundayjumper]

Zelenskyy is no fool, that’s for sure, so I’m holding some slight hope here. He’s shown them he can and will embarrass them publicly. A lawyer turned comedian trained in improv can deal with hecklers. Who knew ??

The minerals deal will necessarily be complex. This stuff is not just sitting on the surface waiting for someone to pick it up. Most of it is unknown really and based on very old Soviet research & surveys. Could be less. Could be a lot more. Mining uses vast amounts of energy, electricity, and Ukraine’s grid is already severely damaged and well below normal capacity let alone adding this in. The US doesn’t have state mining companies like Russia does (yet..) so it can’t *tell* them to go and start work there. They’ll need to fund it themselves and that’s a big ask.

Either way it’ll be a long time before the US sees any real payoff. I saw 20 years quoted. And as anyone who has worked in project management knows, things ALWAYS take longer than expected

So I’m mainly concerned with what the military support looks like today, next week, next month. If it’s not stepped up then it’ll be easy in 10 years’ time for Zelenskyy (or his successor) to say to the next US president “you guys failed us while Europe got their shit together and saved the day, you can gtf with your minerals deal”.

And Europe does appear to be on the verge of getting its shit together. 10 years is how long it will take to detach from the US as a supplier, and move fully to European (and Canadian, Australian) partners.

This might just work.

[Rich B]

Reading between the lines (which isn’t particularly hidden) , the “security” Trump is proposing is nothing more than the fact the US will have workers in the country that they don’t want being shot at.

From what i’ve seen/heard there’s nothing to say that the US will stop Russia in any way if they want to take more land- so it’s basically just the US getting access to minerals to carry on doing what they’ve been doing.

[V8Granite]

Zelenskyy is no fool, that’s for sure, so I’m holding some slight hope here. He’s shown them he can and will embarrass them publicly. A lawyer turned comedian trained in improv can deal with hecklers. Who knew ??

The minerals deal will necessarily be complex. This stuff is not just sitting on the surface waiting for someone to pick it up. Most of it is unknown really and based on very old Soviet research & surveys. Could be less. Could be a lot more. Mining uses vast amounts of energy, electricity, and Ukraine’s grid is already severely damaged and well below normal capacity let alone adding this in. The US doesn’t have state mining companies like Russia does (yet..) so it can’t *tell* them to go and start work there. They’ll need to fund it themselves and that’s a big ask.

Either way it’ll be a long time before the US sees any real payoff. I saw 20 years quoted. And as anyone who has worked in project management knows, things ALWAYS take longer than expected

So I’m mainly concerned with what the military support looks like today, next week, next month. If it’s not stepped up then it’ll be easy in 10 years’ time for Zelenskyy (or his successor) to say to the next US president “you guys failed us while Europe got their shit together and saved the day, you can gtf with your minerals deal”.

And Europe does appear to be on the verge of getting its shit together. 10 years is how long it will take to detach from the US as a supplier, and move fully to European (and Canadian, Australian) partners.

This might just work.

Don’t worry, Bergen have sold a load of generators we are putting in, it’s funded by the Norwegian government.

Dave!

[V8Granite]

Reading between the lines (which isn’t particularly hidden) , the “security” Trump is proposing is nothing more than the fact the US will have workers in the country that they don’t want being shot at.

From what i’ve seen/heard there’s nothing to say that the US will stop Russia in any way if they want to take more land- so it’s basically just the US getting access to minerals to carry on doing what they’ve been doing.

The Americans take personell security very seriously, we lost a large part of RR due to having overalls in a country they didn’t like and couldn’t be associated with without a security presence.

I do wonder how big the deal will be, will it be Americans run I g mining arrangements from afar or will it be like their oil and gas set-ups and end up being enormous industries growing from it and thousands of local workers.

Normally this stuff takes years to arrange so happening in a few weeks leaves quite a few questions

Dave!

[Rich B]

Reading between the lines (which isn’t particularly hidden) , the “security” Trump is proposing is nothing more than the fact the US will have workers in the country that they don’t want being shot at.

From what i’ve seen/heard there’s nothing to say that the US will stop Russia in any way if they want to take more land- so it’s basically just the US getting access to minerals to carry on doing what they’ve been doing.

The Americans take personell security very seriously, we lost a large part of RR due to having overalls in a country they didn’t like and couldn’t be associated with without a security presence.

I do wonder how big the deal will be, will it be Americans run I g mining arrangements from afar or will it be like their oil and gas set-ups and end up being enormous industries growing from it and thousands of local workers.

Normally this stuff takes years to arrange so happening in a few weeks leaves quite a few questions

Dave!

i expect the security for their personnel will be present…

… but whether they care if they’re working in Ukrainian or Russian occupied land? So long as they’re not getting shot at.

[V8Granite]

Aslong as it doesn’t look bad on the news!!

Dave!

[Mito Man]

It will just turn into Iraq Mk.2.
Russia and America extracting minerals mainly rather than crude. Ukraine will become an underdeveloped dump as the majority of the money will be siphoned out. Putin will install someone similar to Lukashenko and Russia will be accepted as a trading partner worldwide again whilst they rebuild their army and get ready to rinse and repeat.

[jamcg]

Dutch tv fucking nailing this

[mik]