Bye bye Starmer

[jamcg]

Don’t want to drag up the Brexit thread but I just noticed my French butter and cheese both say “not for EU” on them. What are they tainting the non EU version with?

It’s for stuff going to northern Ireland, so it doesn’t cross into the republic, to stop any attempt to bypass trade rules

[IanF]

2.6% of GDP on defence by 2027 and 3% next parliament are the right steps.. wonder what the rest of Europe will announce?

[Mito Man]

And importantly it's funded by a cut by international aid, most of which is absolute bollocks. Finally a sensible move.

[Simon]

Aye, I support this move. Necessary and costed. Get the hell away from the US and make a strong European defence force.

[ZedLeg]

It’s funny how there’s never enough money for health or social care but we always find the cash for war.

[dinny_g]

It’s not “funny” - it’s a sad but unfortunately necessary aspect of modern life.

Even Internationally Neutral countries need to spend money on their armed forces..

[ZedLeg]

We’re doubling our defence budget after crying poverty for the last 3 months.

We couldn’t use any of that money elsewhere?

[dinny_g]

What do you expect from a left wing government other than lies…

[ZedLeg]

Left wing how can a government that cuts social care and aid budgets while increasing defence spending be called left wing?

[dinny_g]

Because they’re Labour.

Come on Zed, it’s not that hard…

[ZedLeg]

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[Rich B]

I’ve never been a fan of the whole “spend billions on ever more deadly weapons because everyone else is doing it” either, but the threat has stepped up significantly.

We’ve seen our biggest ally do a complete U turn and throw another friend under the bus. We unfortunately need to now be prepared to defend ourselves without allies or there may not be any NHS to spend anything on..

[ZedLeg]

I understand that and I’m not saying we shouldn’t spend any money.

It’s more the exposure to the lie that the coffers were bare when we’re suddenly going to drop an extra £25bil a year into defence. All while still threatening disabled people with benefit cuts.

None of it was necessary, the cruelty is and has always been a choice.

[Swervin_Mervin]

I’ve never been a fan of the whole “spend billions on ever more deadly weapons because everyone else is doing it” either, but the threat has stepped up significantly.

We’ve seen our biggest ally do a complete U turn and throw another friend under the bus. We unfortunately need to now be prepared to defend ourselves without allies or there may not be any NHS to spend anything on..

Exactly. We've no idea what Vlad might do in future and the US are threatening to cut security. To the extent they're now voting pro-Russia on UN resolutions. And it's not entirely untrue that we've been complacent in relying heavily on the US for decades now.

We have fewer than 100,000 regular troops in the army and c200 tanks with numbers falling as they're cannibalised to keep a fleet* running. So if the shit did hit the fan we've not got a huge amount to offer other than some nukes and arguably some of the best military minds.

It's unfair to say we're spending on war - we'd be spending on defence which hopefully helps to prevent war.

ETA - you're completely right though Zed about bleating about being skint

[Gavster]

I saw an article about how our military spending went up to 46% of GDP last time someone tried to invade us, so worth trying to prevent happening again, before anyone thinks we're easy pickings.

[Rich B]

I understand that and I’m not saying we shouldn’t spend any money.

It’s more the exposure to the lie that the coffers were bare when we’re suddenly going to drop an extra £25bil a year into defence. All while still threatening disabled people with benefit cuts.

None of it was necessary, the cruelty is and has always been a choice.

Its all about perspective though. If someone asked you for £25k today to help sort the mental health in your town, you’d have to say no, you don’t have £25k.

Now someone says they want £25k or they’ll murder your partner. You’d find that £25k.

The perceived threat changes your willingness to spend/find/borrow that money.

[ZedLeg]

Even by your recent standards that’s profoundly stupid Rich.

[Rich B]

Even by your recent standards that’s profoundly stupid Rich.

Well your suggestion seems to be like giving a child a limitless credit card. Have everything, don’t worry about the cost - you’re in debt anyway.

[mik]

Well your suggestion seems to be like giving a child a limitless credit card. Have everything, don’t worry about the cost - you’re in debt anyway.

Aside - but I knew someone who earned good money, but was £40k in debt on their credit card(s). They went on holiday as they were stressed about it, and felt that being £45k in debt would feel no different, and they'd at least have had a holiday. They were a fucking idiot mind....

[Marv]

I still find it hard to believe that with the untold billions of pounds generated in tax in the UK every year, that successive governments have fucked things up that badly that the country is in debt to the degree that they're cutting things this much.

But then I'm definitely not an economist.

As Zed alludes to, I think there is enough money to go round, but the governments choose to cut or neglect things they don't need to, but roll out the magic money tree when it suits them.

I agree that the right amount of money needs spending on defence, but the skeptical part of me wonders which MPs will benefit from the increase in defence company shares, that presumably happened after the announcement.