The House Projects Thread

[Gavster]

Yep, in theory. Definitely getting closer.

[GG.]

BIG update on the neighbours, they did allow access today and it confirmed exactly what we suspected - they are big-time hoarders. The entire flat is filled with bags of junk from floor to ceiling in every room, barely any space to move, let alone any space to live in. No sofa, no tables and chairs, no beds. Just massive piles of bags and boxes stacked up to the ceiling in every single room, including the bathroom, and a very narrow trail between them that leads from the front door to the toilet via the kitchen.

While they allowed access, a survey was not possible because one room was completely inaccessible and much of the flat is obstructed, meaning that not much has actually changed. The disposal hearing on Friday should set out a timeline for wrapping this up, including what they need to do to get relief from forfeiture, which will likely be to clear the property to allow a survey, and to pay costs within a certain amount of time, e.g. 3 months. It will also be the last chance saloon for them, because the order will probably say that if those terms aren't met, then it will default to possession, which is the end of the road for them.

Wow this is a big development.

It's all very sad really as I expect their embarrassment at the state of the property likely drove a lot of the hostility (though perhaps not entirely an excuse in light of your comment that they initiated an action against you initially).

Ultimately I expect they were perhaps thinking that letting a surveyor in would deal with the issue, so I'm not convinced it still won't end up with a possession order. Ultimately it shows how the courts being 'soft' with them actually just made the process more painful, protracted and expensive for everyone.

[Gavster]

I've always felt a bit sorry for them, and I tried my hardest when I moved in to help them, I used to take them out for coffee, cleared their garden, offered to pop in to look at issues for them etc. But they become incredibly threatening with anything relating to property if they don't get their way. When I was still just a leaseholder and we were discussing buying the freehold together, he emailed requesting I amend my lease to prevent me from ever renting my property, that the previous freeholder should pay all his costs, and that "litigation shouldn't be necessary". Not to mention that he has stood in the street shouting at me in the past. It's quite sad that the current process is the only way to absolutely resolve the problems.

There's a lot of anologies for them, but people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

ETA: It was always made exceptionally clear, since the start of this process that a survey must have ‘full and unfettered access to all parts of the property’ and that they must ensure the property is cleared to enable that. They probably had that warning about 30 times since 2019, so they were ancutely aware that any obstructions would prevent the survey from being completed.

[Sundayjumper]

Gavster has shared the photos with me, which I'm obviously not going to post, but the whole thing is equal measures horrific & tragic. When Gavster said "a trail to the toilet" it's literally *to the toilet*. Where there should be the bath to one side, and the sink to the other, neither are even visible under piles of bin liners full of <god knows what>. There's nowhere to wash. The kitchen has no worksurfaces, no sink, for the same reason, bags of stuff piled everywhere. The fridge is inaccessible behind more piles of rubbish, as is the back door, which should be an emergency exit. Most of the windows are boarded up, save for the kitchen window where you can just see the very top of it. If there was a fire at the front of the property, there would be no way of getting out.

The surveyor's initial assessment signs off quite bluntly saying it is unfit for habitation and a risk to anyone that enters.

[mik]

What a mess. I don’t know how people descend into the self-destructive hoarding process, but it’s all the more mad when they are a couple. Surely one of them can highlight to the other that they are being completely irrational?

Hope this speeds an end to your ongoing pain Gav.

[Mito Man]

Fvcking hell

[Beany]

BIG update on the neighbours, they did allow access today and it confirmed exactly what we suspected - they are big-time hoarders. The entire flat is filled with bags of junk from floor to ceiling in every room, barely any space to move, let alone any space to live in. No sofa, no tables and chairs, no beds. Just massive piles of bags and boxes stacked up to the ceiling in every single room, including the bathroom, and a very narrow trail between them that leads from the front door to the toilet via the kitchen.

While they allowed access, a survey was not possible because one room was completely inaccessible and much of the flat is obstructed, meaning that not much has actually changed. The disposal hearing on Friday should set out a timeline for wrapping this up, including what they need to do to get relief from forfeiture, which will likely be to clear the property to allow a survey, and to pay costs within a certain amount of time, e.g. 3 months. It will also be the last chance saloon for them, because the order will probably say that if those terms aren't met, then it will default to possession, which is the end of the road for them.

Having been there and done that, I can sympathise with them, but they've just pissed away five years, and hundreds of extremely expensive man hours for the sake of a £500 hours clearing session with a cleaning service.

When I was in a place like that ( @mik mental health is a bitch ) you know what I did?

I hired the fucking cleaner - because I didn't have the staggering arrogance to try to take someone to court over it - and I got psychological support, which took ages, but I'm better at recognising when I'm heading towards that direction again and can avoid it. I mean, my house is never spick and span, but it's not got as bad as described here, and I don't intend to let it get to that stage again.

I expect both parties have similar psychological makeup, so were reinforcing each other on this which - again, having been there and done that, in a seperate way, never date someone with the same mental illnesses as you - can go bad, fast.

Being alone, I didn't have that, so I was perhaps more likely to go "no, maybe the people outside of my hermitude have a point and I should sort my shit out"....

Edit: Honestly, reading all this is giving me the hives - methinks it's time to call a cleaner again...

[IanF]

“no beds”.. wtf!?

I feel I’m at a crossroads regarding my own property purchase; I’ve found something I like on a very nice road on Richmond Hill that would suit me and my daughter extremely well.. I’ve also been looking around Oxfordshire/Cotswolds at larger properties with my partner (who has two 18+ kids), but my daughter doesn’t want to move out there. I’m trying to sweeten the deal with “discussions” regarding a holiday home in Italy with both my daughter and my partner, but neither seem willing to compromise.

I need to stop being a pussy and make a decision..

[ZedLeg]

What a mess. I don’t know how people descend into the self-destructive hoarding process, but it’s all the more mad when they are a couple. Surely one of them can highlight to the other that they are being completely irrational?

Hope this speeds an end to your ongoing pain Gav.

I can see how it could happen tbh.

My partner’s a hoarder and if left to their own devices would have piles of stuff everywhere.

Fortunately since I went started my medication I’ve become quite anti clutter so we meet in the middle.

[Gavster]

It's funny @Beany that you mentioned the arrogance, and that's the really wild part - they have always, and still do maintain that I am the problem at this building, not them. In fact, their initial attempt at extortion was in 2019 prior to the first claim, when they emailed me saying I had devalued their property by £10,000, therefore I needed to give them the freehold for free, otherwise they'd take me to court. For the last six years they've been accusing me of trespassing, vandalism, breaking and entering, verbal abuse and constant noise nuisance - needless to say all of which are utter fantasy and simply diversions. They have ignored all offers of help, despite everyone from friends, family, lawyers, barristers and judges telling them they're wrong, they still seem to think they're right. If there's one thing I've learned from my many, many years of mental health issues - which has included sponsoring others, is that you cannot help someone who does not want to be helped.

And for the record, we're talking 30+ years of hoarding with boarded-up windows, no heating, dodgy electrics and damp. This is a £70k refurb job which raises genuine questions about whether my own flat is safe.

[Jobbo]

raises genuine questions about whether my own flat is safe.

That's the big one for me. With the limited costs and the amount of work required to make it habitable and the building safe, getting possession would probably not be any sort of windfall for you. But you need to do it just to have control of your own place.

[dinny_g]

I'd be more worried about the immediate risk of fire.

Given how quickly a fire would take hold and you right above them...

[Beany]

If there's one thing I've learned from my many, many years of mental health issues - which has included sponsoring others, is that you cannot help someone who does not want to be helped.

Oh, you can. But getting someone sectioned for their own wellbeing is tricky.

And yeah, it sounds like if the place had just become a tip in the last, say, year or two, it'd be a simple black bag job, but it's clearly well beyond that.

[dinny_g]

There's Tik Tok'ers who film Trebus type hoarder clearing for content...

I smell a collab...

[Beany]

I'm not sure exploiting someone's life destroying mental health crisis - and that's what it's now become - for clicks is perhaps the best way forward here.

[dinny_g]

I mean I know Gav's been stressed but I wouldn't say he's developed a Life Destroying mental health crisis.

[Gavster]

There's Tik Tok'ers who film Trebus type hoarder clearing for content...

I smell a collab...

Funnily enough it was seeing hoarder content on TikTok which prepared me for what could exist inside the flat.

[Jobbo]

Do they actually live there?

[Gavster]

Do they actually live there?

This is a great mystery, they definitely did until a year or so ago. They claim to have no money or other assets and that they now live in their car, by parking overnight a few miles from here. We have no idea if this is true or not - and given their desire to be the victim in everything, I would question the veracity of these claims.

[Jobbo]

That would surely backfire - you won't feel nearly as guilty when you get an order for possession if they don't live in it. And a judge won't see them as being made homeless when they've already made themselves homeless by choice.