Trump

[mik]

@jamcg - the investigation team will undoubtedly be under significant pressure to accelerate their normal process.

And not just that, they'll be under pressure to start with the correct MAGA answer and work backwards from there.

And the head of the NTSB is a woman - before they get started she'll need a thorough debriefing on how these whirlybirds even manage to float in the air - probably from Trump himself.

[Swervin_Mervin]

If it ends up being as simple as "there's a plane near you, can you see it?"; "yeah, I can see a plane in the distance so it's all good", that seems like an overly basic procedure given the risk! I'm assuming there's more to it than that, but off the radio comms the fact that there is even that dialogue surprised me a little.

If only there was a pilot on the forum to explain all this...

There's a few on PH saying how they're not surprised as ATC in the U.S. is batshit

From PH

"The way US airports and ATC operate is a fk up waiting to happen.

I have no idea how San Francisco hasn’t had a major incident as it can be utter carnage. You can be at four miles final and cleared to land on one of the westerly landing runways with another aircraft within spitting distance of your wingtip on a parallel approach to the parallel runway. Meanwhile there are two aircraft taxiing across your runway downfield whilst another aircraft is cleared for takeoff on the northerly runway that intersects and crosses your runway at the midfield. It can be mayhem. That’s all after they’ve told you to expect an instrument approach to one runway before being told at the last minute you’re cleared for a visual approach to a different runway.

I realise that won’t mean much to non-flyers but nowhere else in the world will they clear you to land unless the runway is clear and all preceding or crossing aircraft have vacated. It’s not unusual to be lined up with multiple aircraft having a landing clearance and multiple aircraft still on the runway! Somehow the system works but it still amazes me. "

and

"I can back up much of what Crumpet says. Two airline pilots in our house. We both fly heavies and our routes include lots in the US.

I pointed out the news to my wife, she just said,"it's hardly a surprise". Sadly I agree.

I recall flying into Miami. Thankfully in daylight. We were slightly confused what we were seeing. We were at about 5 miles to touchdown so asked ATC, they said, "oh yeah, you may see a blimp pass below you shortly!". We were in a 747. They were really close. ATC were barely interested.

I put it less down to too few staff and more down to culture and rules that are asking for trouble. "

and

"On your last point it’s my opinion that the two are not mutually exclusive. They’ve found themselves in a position where the only way they can work the volume of traffic they need to is to cut corners and write those cut corners into their procedures. In certain businesses they’d call that efficiency gain, in aviation we know it to be utter madness and a disaster waiting to happen. What they should do is regulate/flow to traffic levels that allow for safe procedures and sensible fatigue mitigating rostering but that’s not how it works in the US. The demand is allowed to dictate how the supply operates and the answer is on a knife edge.

That’s not to say that there isn’t a cultural issue in US ATC, there is. Anyone who’s listened to the RT at KBOS for example will understand exactly why they have so many runway incursions, it’s woeful. But again you need to ask what’s driven that culture. 60hr weeks, 1 day off in 7, 10 hour shifts with minimum breaks, mandatory shift extensions during said shift, mandatory overtime, it’s a horror story of employment conditions. Zero consideration for the wellbeing of the individuals, just throw some money at them and tell them to like it or lump it."


I;m happy to not visit the hellhole again for quite a long while

[jamcg]

America really is a shit show of a country in a freedom coloured fancy dress, and somehow all its residents are blind to it

[mik]

And another snippet of info from Hoover - from this it seems like ATC had accepted that the 'heli had a visual on the CRJ and that they (the 'heli) would control visual separation quite some time before the impact.

The Blackhawk then makes a number of manoeuvres getting closer to the CRJ - the ATC then ask them to confirm again that they have visual on the CRJ, and again accepts their confirmation and that they will maintain separation.

Several other reports have covered the latter exchange between ATC and the Blackhawk - this is the only one I have seen that mentions the former exchange (and handover of responsibility to the 'copter pilots).

[IanF]

I speak to several hundred Americans over a year, and as even the young, black lady in Tampa said to me last week, something had to change and that’s what Trump offered. They’re so disillusioned, with many wanting to get “rich quick”, that a significant amount of them think the only reason they’re not wealthy/happy is because of some sinister plot. It’s terribly sad. You only need to watch groups of 4 to 10 adults buying a Lamborghini Urus between them rather than just getting a reasonable car each to see that their expectations are massively skewed.

Only place that I find most people not happy about Trump is California, and that was before his nonsense about the LA fires.

[DaveE]

@jamcg - the investigation team will undoubtedly be under significant pressure to accelerate their normal process.

And not just that, they'll be under pressure to start with the correct MAGA answer and work backwards from there.

And the head of the NTSB is a woman - before they get started she'll need a thorough debriefing on how these whirlybirds even manage to float in the air - probably from Trump himself.

It's buoyancy

(Little flat earth joke there)

[Mito Man]

groups of 4 to 10 adults buying a Lamborghini Urus between them

Erm WHAT
Fucking clowns.

[dinny_g]

The line

"Trump is not successful by making the lives of the people who support him better...

He is successful because he makes lives of the people those people hate worse"

is so true

[duncs500]

On the basis the vids you've posted @mik it's pretty hard to see past helicopter pilot error. The visual separation must be challenging if in doubt one would expect he should have said so, but you can see how you might believe you had a visual. However, how he finds himself at 150ft over his max altitude (eg. 75% increase) is harder to understand. Obviously I've never flown a helicopter, so I don't know why that might have been, but it seems like that max 200ft was the last resort failsafe to prevent helicopters and planes coming together.

No matter, if anyone in one of the aircraft or ATC was brown or gay, then it's probably going to be their fault!

[Rich B]

No matter, if anyone in one of the aircraft or ATC was brown or gay, then it's probably going to be their fault!

Thats my concern, does Trump know that there is someone in there who is in some way “different” that he’s planning to pin this whole thing on for political gain?

[Sundayjumper]

You only need to watch groups of 4 to 10 adults buying a Lamborghini Urus between them rather than just getting a reasonable car each...

I had no idea that was a thing. And it's on crazy finance I assume.

[Sundayjumper]

Thats my concern, does Trump know that there is someone in there who is in some way “different” that he’s planning to pin this whole thing on for political gain?

The Head of the FAA was forced to resign by Elon last week, because he was holding SpaceX to account and hasn't been replaced. At the same time donold fired the entire Aviation Security Advisory Committee, 100 top FAA security officers, and froze hiring of all Air Traffic Controllers. There's virtually nobody left for him to pin it on, or do an investigation, or make (sensible) recommendations how to stop it happening again.

[IanF]

You only need to watch groups of 4 to 10 adults buying a Lamborghini Urus between them rather than just getting a reasonable car each...

I had no idea that was a thing. And it's on crazy finance I assume.

Yeah, usually 5-10 years, but more is not unheard of. Long term car financing is quite common over there..

[Rich B]

You only need to watch groups of 4 to 10 adults buying a Lamborghini Urus between them rather than just getting a reasonable car each...

I had no idea that was a thing. And it's on crazy finance I assume.

Yeah, usually 5-10 years, but more is not unheard of. Long term car financing is quite common over there..

Is it that daft? people join car clubs to access cars they wouldn’t be able to buy normally - this is basically the same thing?

[Sundayjumper]

Depends on the exit conditions on the finance (and the reliability of the other 3-9 people you're in with !). A car club is probably a year at a time with zero further commitment.

[dinny_g]

Not quite Rich

If another car club member twats a car while drunk, or decides they won’t pay their subs anymore, you’re not financially hit..

[Sundayjumper]

And a car club will have >1 cars

[IanF]

I had no idea that was a thing. And it's on crazy finance I assume.

Yeah, usually 5-10 years, but more is not unheard of. Long term car financing is quite common over there..

Is it that daft? people join car clubs to access cars they wouldn’t be able to buy normally - this is basically the same thing?

Maybe, but I don’t think car clubs are particularly good value either

And it’s not just cars, boat and houses are the same. Property, you all pay one years mortgage payment in Y1, so the mortgage is cleared in 1-3 years, monthlies reducing rapidly, whilst you rent out the property then rinse and repeat. Sort of see that as pension alternative. And I believe there are significant tax/credit benefits for someone who owns property esp mortgage free (plus they get to say they’re “mortgage-free”, so “rich quick” above)

[mik]

Is it that daft? people join car clubs to access cars they wouldn’t be able to buy normally - this is basically the same thing?

I don't know if it is daft, but it sounds like a great way to destroy friendships to me.

With a car club your costs and access "allowance" are all known up-front. Sharing a car with 4 or more people - with (possibly wildly) different views on when things such as cosmetics need to be fixed, and by who, and why don't we just put cheaper tyres on it, and I think the brake discs will be fine with just a new set of pads no I always swap my discs and pads together and I only ever use EBC as I trust them no I insist we fit OEM despite the cost and anyway my brothers mate at work could fit them for much less than the garage, and who marked the leather with blue jeans it wasn't me it needs fiIxed properly but I'm not contributing to that shit you can fuck off, and I know Rich booked the car for his trip to MTBWarehouse three months ago but this is my kid's graduation which is more important and Rich would put like 300 miles on it when I'd be more like 40 the rules need to have some flex...... etc etc

[Gavster]

I speak to several hundred Americans over a year, and as even the young, black lady in Tampa said to me last week, something had to change and that’s what Trump offered. They’re so disillusioned, with many wanting to get “rich quick”, that a significant amount of them think the only reason they’re not wealthy/happy is because of some sinister plot. It’s terribly sad. You only need to watch groups of 4 to 10 adults buying a Lamborghini Urus between them rather than just getting a reasonable car each to see that their expectations are massively skewed.

I'm sure it was posted on here by someone else recently, however this speaks precisely to the Steinbeck quote “socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”