Bye bye Starmer

[Jobbo]

One of the particular inequities of IHT is where family members live in a house owned by the deceased, there's a strong chance their home has to be sold to cover IHT.

Anyway, the devil is in the detail as always. And that detail is here: https://www.gov.uk/government/topical-e ... udget-2024
But based on the speech I don't think it was a bad budget. It stuck to their manifesto commitments (in what was a fairly obvious way - why on earth there was so much pre-budget fuss about working people I have no idea) and signalled some sensible ways forward with swift funding for things like the NHS.

[Beany]

I expect there was fuss about working people because "how the budget will impact the man on the street" gets more clicks than "employers will be contributing more NI" etc.

No particular surprises given the direction of travel implied in previous stuff - no (headline) return to austerity, getting more money in, trying to patch holes in existing budgets etc.

Good to see a bit more going towards education and local regional areas (manchester I think got a budget), means the small business I work for has more likelihood of picking up work from libraries in that region, etc - or at least they're not likely to have to keep slashing services, including having to fight to justify paying for ours.

[Jobbo]

No, the Tories cut CGT on property from 28% to 24%. I can see that going back up.

CGT rates for other disposals were aligned (upwards) with property CGT rates, which did not increase. As I predicted.

[Carlos]

Additional residence SDLT surcharge goes up by 2% to 5% from tomorrow. I doubt it'll do much apart from cause a brief 2% dip in sale prices.

It was already 4% in Jockland (I think).

Same in Wales since 2020.

[ZedLeg]

Oh they’ve scrapped non dom status, that’s a long time coming.

It’s not as bad as a lot of people were expecting tbh.

[GG.]

It’s worth bearing in mind that if you have a £500k inheritance to pass, you’ll pay about £70k unless I’ve misunderstood how it works. It’s not going to leave your kids in the poor house.

Do you how much you need in a pension pot to have a meagre living in retirement (I'm guessing you don't otherwise you wouldn't have made that comment).

£500k at a retirement age of 65 gives you an annuity worth a little over £20k p.a.

[ZedLeg]

Just imagine how all the pensioners that don’t have a massive nest egg are getting on.

[GG.]

Yes so why make the situation worse?

Classic left wing argument on tax is some people have it harder therefore we can do something that is objectively bad to people that aren't and its therefore OK.

[Jobbo]

Just imagine how all the pensioners that don’t have a massive nest egg are getting on.

Probably time to means test the state pension, eh?

[ZedLeg]

We’re nowhere near establishing that inheritance tax is objectively bad.

The left wing view is people are struggling so we should raise money to help them.

[ZedLeg]

Just imagine how all the pensioners that don’t have a massive nest egg are getting on.

Probably time to means test the state pension, eh?

I’m generally against means testing so just pick whatever answer makes you the most cross.

[Swervin_Mervin]

Be interesting to see what effect the IHT changes have on smaller farming operations. Seems to me like they've just been well and truly screwed over.

[dinny_g]

Just imagine how all the pensioners that don’t have a massive nest egg are getting on.

My father in law's getting on great.

Lovely flat in sheltered housing in his home area in London and more money than he needs. In fact, he has to spend money to keep his balance under a certain limit or else his benefits are cut.

So he treats the Grandkids all the time.

[ZedLeg]

Good for your father in law Dinny. Based on that lets make inheritance tax 100% and let the state provide

[Swervin_Mervin]

We’re nowhere near establishing that inheritance tax is objectively bad.

I was reading about the tax structure in Sweden last night. Was genuinely surprised that they don't have IHT. I work on the assumption that if the sensible and efficient Swedes don't do it, then we should probably follow suit.

No wealth tax anymore either over there. The bulk of income tax is paid locally, with only higher earners paying a state income tax. The more I read the more I thought it sounded like an eminently sensible and considerably more transparent setup.

[ZedLeg]

There have been good points made

Jobbo’s point about people living in a house owned by the deceased and having to sell is very sad and Merv makes a good point about farming.

Neither are enough to convince me that inheritance tax is inherently immoral but as always it’s the details that are important

[ZedLeg]

We’re nowhere near establishing that inheritance tax is objectively bad.

I was reading about the tax structure in Sweden last night. Was genuinely surprised that they don't have IHT. I work on the assumption that if the sensible and efficient Swedes don't do it, then we should probably follow suit.

No wealth tax anymore either over there. The bulk of income tax is paid locally, with only higher earners paying a state income tax. The more I read the more I thought it sounded like an eminently sensible and considerably more transparent setup.

That’s interesting.

In an ideal world we would start from scratch as our benefit and tax system is a nightmare. As long as people are paying the taxes they owe, I don’t really care which piles the money is coming from.

[Swervin_Mervin]

We’re nowhere near establishing that inheritance tax is objectively bad.

I was reading about the tax structure in Sweden last night. Was genuinely surprised that they don't have IHT. I work on the assumption that if the sensible and efficient Swedes don't do it, then we should probably follow suit.

No wealth tax anymore either over there. The bulk of income tax is paid locally, with only higher earners paying a state income tax. The more I read the more I thought it sounded like an eminently sensible and considerably more transparent setup.

That’s interesting.

In an ideal world we would start from scratch as our benefit and tax system is a nightmare. As long as people are paying the taxes they owe, I don’t really care which piles the money is coming from.

Totally agree.

I find it a fascinating place really, but will keep my thoughts for the Sweden thread which I'll update soon. They have issues, as does every country, but there seems to be much more of a sense that everyone is in it together over there, whether they're a waitress or a banker. I think @DeskJockey has touched on this before about the deep-seated divisions in this country which only serve to fuel our stagnation.

[ZedLeg]

I’ve met a few swedes through work and they’ve all gone home over the last couple of years as they say it’s a much nicer place to live.

[IanF]

Phew!.. not a bad budget imho. The childish nature of our HoC is bloody embarrassing though!

I was expecting a wealth tax, which I’d rather have instead of IHT to remove the issue that Jobbo describes. Surprised by fuel duty staying the same and NI change will affect every business differently, but seems reasonable.

2% extra 2nd home - ugh so an extra £10k bill on a £500k home purchase, or more in my case because I still own the property my ex and daughter live in; great !