People of Holland

[Jobbo]

Oh good, we're having the helmet debate. Ignoring cycling downhill at 50mph through a forest for a moment (that's sport, not transport - you all put a helmet on when motor racing but don't when driving to work), there's plenty of evidence about the efficacy or otherwise of helmets. And many, many anecdotes from people who've fallen off a bike.

It reminds me of that Brass Eye quote. Helmets are safer: it's scientific fact. There's no real evidence for it, but it's a scientific fact.

My particular objection to GG's comments was that no car driver has the right to behave differently towards someone because they are, or are not, wearing a helmet. The cyclist is a squashy thing and if you run him over, the helmet will do nothing to protect him (since they aren't designed to stop a 1.5 tonne car from crushing your skull).

[JLv3.0]

Simon, this seems to be quite a trigger point for you. Of course I could ask Mr Google but from a theoretical standpoint, how can wearing a helmet be anything other than a benefit in a crash?

[NotoriousREV]

My particular objection to GG's comments was that no car driver has the right to behave differently towards someone because they are, or are not, wearing a helmet. The cyclist is a squashy thing and if you run him over, the helmet will do nothing to protect him (since they aren't designed to stop a 1.5 tonne car from crushing your skull).

Exactly this, especially as it is believed that it is this very phenomenon that seems to keep injury levels the same despite more people wearing helmets.

The anti-cyclist venom that you see on social media is sickening. Just try to remember not to kill a human each day. It’s really not that hard.

[ste]

This ^

[ste]

Simon, this seems to be quite a trigger point for you. Of course I could ask Mr Google but from a theoretical standpoint, how can wearing a helmet be anything other than a benefit in a crash?

The thoery, or a common one I've seen, is that the helmet causes extra leverage and can make an impact have more effect further down the biomechanical chain, eg, break your neck etc.

[JLv3.0]

Interesting stuff - genuinely never knew that.

[Rich B]

Yeah, and where you might tuck your head in and not actually hit anything rolling out of a crash, the helmet might actually cause your head to catch on/hit stuff.

For a real example put a hard hat and heavy steel toecaps on on in a building site then walk around a tight plant room. You end up knocking stuff and catching your feet on steps/etc.. far more than you would ever do if you were in normal kit.

I wear mine MTBing because I do silly stuff and I wouldn’t dream of doing it without - I don’t usually bother on the roads though because it’s hassle to carry and I don’t ride much other than down to the shops/etc - I accept this is daft though.

[JLv3.0]

Building site analogy is absolutely on point - was forever cracking my lid on the scaffolding etc back when I was employable

You've already acknowledged it's daft so this isn't criticism, but even at the speeds I'm sure you're capable of MTBing, I still wager road conditions are more dangerous, with cars, kerbs and so on. But hey.

[Gwaredd]

Oh good, we're having the helmet debate. Ignoring cycling downhill at 50mph through a forest for a moment (that's sport, not transport - you all put a helmet on when motor racing but don't when driving to work), there's plenty of evidence about the efficacy or otherwise of helmets. And many, many anecdotes from people who've fallen off a bike.

Indeed. A lad I went to school with (year below) died this year when he fell off his bike. He was doing the thing we've all done, riding home from the shop with a shopping bag on his handlebar and was probably riding well under 10mph when the bag snagged in his front wheel sending him over the bars. Unfortunately, he wasn't wearing a helmet, hit his head in the wrong pace & died pretty much instantly. 99.9% of the time, he would have got up & rode on.

That's the trouble with not wearing a helmet. You need them when you're not expecting it, not when you're tearing down a mountainside.

I can't not wear mine anywhere now. It's like not putting your seatbelt on to nip up the road. Just feels wrong.

[JLv3.0]

I don't think Simon was making that point though - I could be wrong of course.

And yep - I'm an ATGATTer. All The Gear, All The Time. Mainly because I'd feel so fucking stupid if something happened and I wasn't wearing it.

[Gwaredd]

I'm not sure either, but it's a good anecdote in a helmet debate.

And I understand it with the gear. The way I explained it to my kids when they did't want to wear a helmet was thus: You could not look & cross the road without being hit 99% of the time, but why risk it? You look as a preventative measure. Cycle helmet is no different IMO.

#snowflake

[JLv3.0]

Every now and again Jobbo gets inexplicably cross - I always like to try and get to the root of it as he's such a level-headed and smart chap normally.

[NotoriousREV]

I don't think Simon was making that point though - I could be wrong of course.

And yep - I'm an ATGATTer. All The Gear, All The Time. Mainly because I'd feel so fucking stupid if something happened and I wasn't wearing it.

I'm like this with motorbike gear, yet I don't bother with a helmet on a pedal bike. Go figure.

[mik]

Yeah, and where you might tuck your head in and not actually hit anything rolling out of a crash, the helmet might actually cause your head to catch on/hit stuff.

Thats why i never wear a seatbelt - bruising to the chest following an impact is massively reduced by embedding the rim of a steering wheel into your frontal lobe.

[Mito Man]

I wear a helmet when cycling but not when on a skateboard but that’s because I only skate if I’m going to a shit part of London where I wouldn’t trust parking my bike and I don’t want the added baggage of carrying a helmet + board around.

[JonathanE]

Yeah, and where you might tuck your head in and not actually hit anything rolling out of a crash, the helmet might actually cause your head to catch on/hit stuff.

For a real example put a hard hat and heavy steel toecaps on on in a building site then walk around a tight plant room. You end up knocking stuff and catching your feet on steps/etc.. far more than you would ever do if you were in normal kit.

This may be true, but surely the point is that hitting your head/foot on something solid once without a helmet/boots is likely to hurt a lot more than hitting it ten times while wearing a helmet? i.e. the helmet might increase the probability of an impact, but not as much as it reduces the consequences of an impact.

Jonathan

[Rich B]

I’m not championing the argument - just passing it on!

[JLv3.0]

I don't think Simon was making that point though - I could be wrong of course.

And yep - I'm an ATGATTer. All The Gear, All The Time. Mainly because I'd feel so fucking stupid if something happened and I wasn't wearing it.

I'm like this with motorbike gear, yet I don't bother with a helmet on a pedal bike. Go figure.

I think cycling is more dangerous!

[240PP]

Every now and again Jobbo gets inexplicably cross - I always like to try and get to the root of it as he's such a level-headed and smart chap normally.

Fuck all in this instance, by the sound of it.

[Rich B]

Every now and again Jobbo gets inexplicably cross - I always like to try and get to the root of it as he's such a level-headed and smart chap normally.

i think the last one was where he was arguing that you should wash your hands before going for a piss not after.