Landlords and property investors

[Gavster]

What do people think about the future of this? Especially given the new proposed bill about renters rights etc.

It feels like the only way to make much money as a landlord is to be in it for the long haul and specifically in areas which are going to see above average house price rises.

I struggle to see how new landlords can enter the market and go beyond breaking even now, without being able to claw back a decent chunk of appreciation in the property.

I’m curious because I keep plotting to get out of my place at some point, and am becoming increasingly nervous about the idea of renting my place out for a couple of years while I rent in a new location.

[ZedLeg]

Landlords/developers and the housing crisis is the same issue.

We need a concerted effort to build social/affordable housing.

Landlords pretending they offer a vital service isn’t filling the gap.

[240PP]

I’ve got two BTLs bought in 2016 and 2017. It’s been hassle free as I’ve had the same (good) tenants right the way through.

As soon as someone moves out though I’m selling up. I hear too many stories about nightmare tenants and I can get the same return, if not better, investing elsewhere for less risk.

Gav - could you rent it to a mate? Or a mate of a mate?

[Carlos]

My wife has been doing it for over 15 years and was initially an accidental landlord intending to buy a couple to develop and move on. The market was flat as a pancake 2009/10 locally so ended up renting them. She has bought and sold a few as well but in an industrial town at the lower end of the market margins are thin whether you are flipping or renting them out. The rise in prices and interest rates makes it not viable at the moment even with rents up 30% in the last 4 years.

Access to social housing is pretty much zero locally so most of our tenants are working families and all seem grateful for decent housing as they are well aware that private landlords are their only choice if they aren't able to buy.

It's nonsense that private landlords are a big factor in the "housing crisis". There simply isn't enough social housing which is a government issue that's been brewing for the last 25 years. There will always be people who are lifelong renters and the reason they are unable to or don't want to buy are complex. Net loss of social housing has been going on since the 80's and the start of the right to buy but zoomers would rather point at someone with 2 houses as the reason they are unable to buy their own home.

I have a mate who is pretty senior at a local housing association and even they are struggling to balance the books as it stands. Further environmental targets and renters rights are going to be a real challenge for them. Talk of selling off some of the older housing stock as its not viable to bring up to an epc standard of C which gives renters less options again but those pesky landlords

[ZedLeg]

The reason that there isn’t social housing is because there’s not been pressure to build any, largely because the government saw private rental as picking up the slack.

The private rental market is definitely partially responsible for the current trouble and it’s not just “folk with 2 houses” it’s companies that own tens or hundreds of properties.

[Carlos]

50% of tenants are housed by landlords with 4 or less properties. Many of those are making little or no profit from rent and therefore I see that as a huge contribution to the housing needs.

[ZedLeg]

That’s my problem with landlords, we’re expected to believe that these people are struggling to provide a service when in reality, most landlords are happy to do fuck all while someone else pays their mortgage.

[Mito Man]

Thinking longer term, but I’ll probably leave the UK for about 5 years. I don’t think I’ll rent my flat out, heard too many horror stories to bother. Also selling and then repurchasing something else is also not worth it as the SDLT would still significantly outweigh service charge bills - the current rates are absolute robbery.

[Jobbo]

There have been various policy changes which have encouraged private landlords with no more than a few properties from leaving the market. The issue there is that the slack will be picked up by more corporate landlords who care less about the tenants and more about the money. So the outcome will be a continuation of the shift of capital from individuals to big corporates.

[Sundayjumper]

I had two flats in Reading, sold them both in 2018 as it seemed to me the future was going to be anti-private landlords. Removing mortgage tax relief for private landlords was very unfair - in any other business the cost of capital is a valid expense. I interpreted it as a helping hand to big corporate landlords, who just might happen to be friends with MPs....

[jamcg]

There’s a deadline of 2030 requiring landlords to have their houses energy performance certification to be rating of c or above, I think that will fuck more people over when that comes in, both landlords spending a fortune and rents rocketing to cover the cost

[V8Granite]

Renters have far too much power, also landlords get away with too much. If you are a bad one of either it seems you can screw people over at will.

Next door had a previous tenant not pay for 6 months as that’s what the council advised as until they were forcibly removed then they wouldn’t house them via the council.

We are buying it as the return will be better than anything else we can use the savings we’ve put away for the kids for. The rent will be £250 a month lower than others in our area, we know the tenant who wants to be there forever and we get a guaranteed good neighbour and a mortgage paid for. Maintenance is just looking after the investment. Unless you put down big deposits the money isn’t worth the risk currently if you are looking for a monthly return.

Dave!

[Carlos]

That’s my problem with landlords, we’re expected to believe that these people are struggling to provide a service when in reality, most landlords are happy to do fuck all while someone else pays their mortgage.

Your problem is a half empty view on reality

Being a landlord in Wales is heavily regulated and those not meeting their obligations are pursued by the local authority.

We've had to repair damage to a property that was damaged by the sitting tent in arrears or go to court to argue why we haven't provided suitable housing. The bond wouldn't cover the arrears let alone the damage!

It's not a free for all on tenants and I assume this is the same in England and Scotland.

I could write a book on stuff that I've come across through clients and my wife's experiences.

A cracker was my wife's cousin issued a notice to a tenant as he kept refusing access for essential maintenance which she could be jailed for not carrying out and then he stopped paying rent. In the over 12 months it took to remove him the arrears were circa 10k and he'd managed to fill the shower cubicle to near ceiling height in shit. It had seeped everywhere and she spent circa £30k ripping ceilings, floorboards, skirting board etc out.

How we laughed at the easy money lol

[ZedLeg]

Every landlord thinks they’re a good one but in 25 years of renting I’ve never seen anything to suggest that good ones exist.

[Jobbo]

Every landlord thinks they’re a good one but in 25 years of renting I’ve never seen anything to suggest that good ones exist.

Anecdotes are not statistical evidence. You’ve never had a decent landlord though? Worst landlord I rented from was the National Trust; the house had rotten floorboards among other issues so I substantially improved it and they still tried to keep my deposit on the basis I hadn’t mowed the lawn

[V8Granite]

What makes a good landlord though ?

Weather tight, gas and electrical safe, secure windows and doors and operational bathrooms and kitchens.

What else should it be ? When we lived under the council I remember them having to change a gas pipe as it wasn’t to standard but other than that everyone looked after their own place.

Dave!

[ZedLeg]

Maybe it’s not the people but the management agencies. I’ve only directly rented like twice.

My current landlord argued so much over a £20 toilet part, I just bought and installed it myself.

[V8Granite]

Maybe it’s not the people but the management agencies. I’ve only directly rented like twice.

My current landlord argued so much over a £20 toilet part, I just bought and installed it myself.

Management agencies seem to screw over both parties. Next door had some bloody awful people do work who were not prepared, lazy and did terrible work. We had issues with them and they were terrible to deal with, big purple tied, shiny suit wearing wastes of oxygen.

Dave!

[Jimexpl]

The system is broken on both sides, but aside from legislation the common denominator in my experience is the decency of people.

Our holiday let in Cornwall gets rented for about 20 weeks a year, essentially 20 short term tenants, and the range of care/cleanliness/expectations/entitlement between guests is amazing. Some might see this as 20 potential sets of problem tenants, but at least they are gone after a week! About three guest a year are problematic.
We've got one at the moment who stayed in the first week of August that experienced a water leak in the entrance hall during high winds/rain. They never told us about the problem (I would have had someone there the same day/next day), but put a claim in for damaged personal items two days ago. It's come in where you would leave beach gear and rain coats, so I'll be asking for photo evidence of this rainwater 'damage' if they pursue the claim!

I co-own two commercial properties and they are generally hassle free while a tenant is in (fairly long term unless they go bust), but you nearly always have a difference of opinion at the end of the agreement that gets a bit messy, and they take far longer to re-let than a residential property.

Landlords are often as poor on high value lets as on the properties the average person lives in. We carry out some work in £5-30m properties that are let and the owners often skimp on maintenance, only doing what is absolutely necessary. It often ends up costing them twice to fix a problem, or a disgruntled tenant refusing to pay rent. This issue is compounded by the way that their maintenance is carried out -
I get called by a general maintenance contractor, they put 15% on my quote, then the property management company put another 15% on that...

[Jobbo]

What makes a good landlord though ?

One who isn’t a bad landlord. If they leave you to it, fix any proper problems quickly and don’t try to make unreasonable deductions from the tenant’s deposit.

I haven’t been a tenant since the deposit protection scheme was introduced and have encountered two very unreasonable landlord agents, both regarding return of undisputed money. So yes, I’d agree that agents can give landlords a bad name.