Bye bye Starmer

[GG.]

There's the old thing of the tradition of chancellers leaving notes to their successors saying "theres no money left, good luck have fun" which was an internal thing done between chancellers of outgoing/incoming parliaments, that the Tories weaponised to suggest the last labour govt were financially incompetent.

In this instance, it appears it may be the actual, literal truth.

I didn't actually realise the additional backstory behind the letters so I had a quick look into it. The custom is to write a personal letter, not necessarily one saying there is no money left. It seems it is also custom not to publicise the letter so it was fair to say it was bad form. If the letter wasn't so glib and inappropriate it obviously wouldn't have been so politically damaging in the first place - common sense would have helped there.

In reality the cause of the debt explosion up to 2010 and the same as we sit here in 2024 were both as a result of extraneous factors over which the government of the day had little control - e.g. GFC and Covid19. I'm sure certain things could have been done differently (e.g. less extravagant furlough system during Covid and tighter control over the loans that were dispensed) but they wouldn't really have moved the dial all that much. Not clear anyone on the left would also have supported those changes - as someone pointed out, Labour have spent a decade saying the Tories were spending too little and now that spending was reckless...

I think many on the left would also use that as a justification that running structural annual deficits (i.e. consistently borrowing more than tax raised for ordinary course predicted spending) is therefore a side show as when Black Swan events come along once every decade or so, it makes those irrelevant in scale compared to the emergency debt incurred. The counter to that of course is that it means there is a larger total debt burden to start off with. The typical Labour tax and spend M.O. already looks to be on the horizon and the money taxed will be redistributed to places where it will have more of a direct effect on the inflation we're already struggling with, increasing the risk of rates staying higher for longer and inhibiting growth. So again, in all likelihood not a clever plan from a macro perspective and generally silly tax and unequitable tax changes from a micro perspective re CGT, inheritance tax, etc. But of course all of this was as clear as day pre-election.

[Swervin_Mervin]

There isn’t going to be a new politics. Just more of the same from another round of uninspired middle managers.

Yep. The next election might prove more interesting than this one just gone, as people realise there was nothing other than a change of tie/dress colour.

[Beany]

There isn’t going to be a new politics. Just more of the same from another round of uninspired middle managers.

Inflicting harm on the poor at the command of the rich.

Oh, in total agreement there...

[GG.]

There isn’t going to be a new politics. Just more of the same from another round of uninspired middle managers.

Yep. The next election might prove more interesting than this one just gone, as people realise there was nothing other than a change of tie/dress colour.

I don't think that's true from a tax spend perspective.

What is true is that they are offering pretty much the same mixture of policies as the Blair era but with an extra sprinkle of vindictiveness and wokery, so in sum, they're likely to end their term in office with all of the same problems to solve and a bigger debt pile and a commensurate level of popularity.

[ZedLeg]

What “wokery”?

[Mito Man]

Which country will Keir invade?

[Rich B]

all of the same problems to solve and a bigger debt pile and a commensurate level of popularity.

I think we’ve just seen the most impressive demonstration of this model from the blue team!

[GG.]

Yep absolutely. Didn't takle any of the problems and ended up with more debt, tax, immigration, inflation, etc. hence their demise.

With being a fresh government - Starmer may get a second term even if he's crap. People's memories of the Tory shambles will last longer than 4 years so he may be safe unless its 4 years of disaster (which I don't think is very likely).

[Jobbo]

all of the same problems to solve and a bigger debt pile and a commensurate level of popularity.

I think we’ve just seen the most impressive demonstration of this model from the blue team!

What Rich said. You can’t refer to Labour being tax and spend without acknowledging that that’s exactly what the Tories did, but the spending was to enrich their mates.

[duncs500]

I might be in the minority of one here, but I've actually been quite impressed with the new government. The work they're doing with the OBR, some of the decisions they've made, generally sound fairly even handed and sensible.

I expected KS to be sensible, but there seems to be a bit of steel and assertiveness in there somewhere which was not really expected.

[IanF]

Disappointed they have shelved the infrastructure improvements, and the new hospitals. Short termism isn’t what I want from a government but I guess that’s the world we live in.

[ZedLeg]

Aye, cancelling public infrastructure projects is the opposite of what I want from a Labour government. Along with keeping the 2 child cap and pb ban.

Going after the winter heating payments is a bold move, no tory was brave enough to go after that.

[Rich B]

Disappointed they have shelved the infrastructure improvements, and the new hospitals. Short termism isn’t what I want from a government but I guess that’s the world we live in.

yeah, but we also don’t want outright liars either. the tories promised us 40 brand new hospitals to win an election, then we watched that promise erode to fuck all over their tenure.

we live in a real world - there a no point lying and failing. set realistic targets and work towards them - which may mean everyone paying a little more to achieve them too.

[Gavster]

I might be in the minority of one here, but I've actually been quite impressed with the new government. The work they're doing with the OBR, some of the decisions they've made, generally sound fairly even handed and sensible.

I'm a big fan of them, largely because their intention and messaging feels honest, which is something that's been lacking in Government for a long time. Surpirsed they cancelled the big infrastrucuture stuff, but glad they're giving junior doctors and NHS workers the pay rises needed - there's little point building new hospitals when we can't retain enough staff for the existing ones.

[Rich B]

Yeah, with the junior doctors, they just had to get on and do something to stop the strikes. One of the key markers of how much the tories were failing was ever growing the nhs waiting lists. Unless they stop that growing, they won’t be taken seriously on anything else.

With the winter fuel allowance, of course it should be means tested in some manner - why on earth should we be giving it to wealthy people?! *

oh yeah, because the tories were shit scared of offending pensioners.

[duncs500]

I'm a big fan of them, largely because their intention and messaging feels honest, which is something that's been lacking in Government for a long time.

I think that's a big part of it isn't it. "This is what we're doing, and this is why we're doing it, even if we don't really want to." Even if you don't agree with it, it gives the impression of transparency.

Being in government is not easy, you can't satisfy everybody, but the fact that they appear to be being responsible is unexpected and refreshing to me. I guess the advantage that a significant majority brings. The previous government's poor performance ironically may actually have provided the tools they need to make some lasting changes.

As someone who is reliant on major infrastructure, I still think something has to be done about. Tax payers just aren't getting value for money.

[ZedLeg]

The thing is that they don’t have to do it. The whole idea that countries run like businesses and you need to “balance the books” is a fallacy.

The choice is who get’s the money they’re spending and it looks like it’s going to be more of the same. I expect that there will be some building companies rubbing their hands together at the prospect of some big PFI projects.

[dinny_g]

I don't' mind paying a bit more tax - just a little bit mind because I'm not rolling in it.

But leave my private pension alone - i'm paying a lot of money - or to put it another way, my family are forgoing a lot NOW - so we're not a burden on the state LATER - so hands off. I will continue to have private medical into retirement, I will not need housing, I will be able to pay for my care etc.

I was chatting to a mate about it on Sunday and in real terms, it's the cost of a quality 2 week family holiday in the sun every year. Instead, we have a foreign summer holiday once ever 4 or 5 years.

[Swervin_Mervin]

I'm not a fan of cancelling infrastructure projects at all - I'd like to see more action on stopping them from running on for years before a spade is allowed into the ground. Generally as a nation I don't think we do too badly in balancing the delivery of projects against ensuring they've been fully impact assessed. However, in very recent years I think that balance has been lost and there's far too much credence paid to all sorts of fringe matters.

What does interest me is the leaking of numerous little tidbits on HS2. HS2 buying land on the Crewe-Manchester leg after it was cancelled. No announcement on the scrapping of Euston station in the speech on cancelled infrastructure. No land having been sold on the cancelled leg of the line etc.

I'd be happy to see a few projects cut if it means that HS2 can get back on track.

[Mito Man]

Let’s cut the infrastructure projects and build however many hundred thousand houses a year, then bitch about congestion and find ways of charging cars. Chicken and egg scenario in terms of stupidity here.