Bye Bye Sunak..

[Mito Man]

France undergoing similar to Italy with Meloni - not really sure what’s happened there since as it’s not covered in our news? Did she manage to nazify Italy? Has she stopped immigration?
Looks like she promised a lot and delivered bugger all

What happened in Sweden in the end ?

We were there when girls were told be be inside by 9pm as all the legal were a bit rapey and then the situation at the train station happened. Didn’t they start gaining popularity for a right wing party ? Or did they actually be sensible and fix the problem in Malmo ?

Dave!

Sweden is a 4 party coalition, with one of the parties being far right so you can imagine how well that all works together.
The gang problems aren’t easily fixable and won’t ever be fully resolved - the current situation now is beyond immigration issues as many of the gangs are now second generation kids who are born in Sweden.

[dinny_g]

As for those marginalised - like incels who hang on Andrew Tate’s every word - they need to work out in what way they are actually marginalised rather than just believing the hype.

Once again, Irony much ???

And I would suppose they might feel marginalised as none of the political parties seem to reflect their particular idea of society

[ZedLeg]

The thing is anyone who has moderate views and is scared to say them is a victim of a scare campaign.

What tends to happen is that someone will moan about being silenced for their moderate opinion and that opinion will be that trans people shouldn’t be allowed the treatment that the entire medical community agrees is right or that all Palestinians are terrorists.

[V8Granite]

The thing is anyone who has moderate views and is scared to say them is a victim of a scare campaign.

What tends to happen is that someone will moan about being silenced for their moderate opinion and that opinion will be that trans people shouldn’t be allowed the treatment that the entire medical community agrees is right or that all Palestinians are terrorists.

I don’t know a single person who doesn’t think Trans people should get what they need. Not a single one thinks that children should get it though.

The media have no doubt blown the actual issue out of all proportion with how many people it affects but it’s probably why it’s being weaponised by either the for or against crowds.

Dave!

[ZedLeg]

Cool, I’m not getting into it here.

[dinny_g]

The thing is anyone who has moderate views and is scared to say them is a victim of a scare campaign.

I guess your idea of moderate and the group I'm suggesting might exist would be different - and therefore they might want to keep their opinions to themselves.

And I'm basing this of personal experience, post Brexit where I was vilified across many social media platforms , called all sorts of names from Gammon to Outright Racist for trying to engage in healthy debate on why I voted to leave the EU. The remainers weren't having it

[ZedLeg]

Yeah but in hindsight all the reasons for leaving the EU weren’t worth it

I’m starting to get curious as to what you think constitutes a moderate opinion though tbh

[Jobbo]

As for those marginalised - like incels who hang on Andrew Tate’s every word - they need to work out in what way they are actually marginalised rather than just believing the hype.

Once again, Irony much ???

And I would suppose they might feel marginalised as none of the political parties seem to reflect their particular idea of society

I think you may have as much understanding of irony as Alanis Morissette, Dinny

Reform don’t actually promise anything different to the mainstream Tory and Labour parties. They just have a personality as a leader.

[dinny_g]

I started typing an answer but then thought better of it...

[Jobbo]

The thing is anyone who has moderate views and is scared to say them is a victim of a scare campaign.

I guess your idea of moderate and the group I'm suggesting might exist would be different - and therefore they might want to keep their opinions to themselves.

And I'm basing this of personal experience, post Brexit where I was vilified across many social media platforms , called all sorts of names from Gammon to Outright Racist for trying to engage in healthy debate on why I voted to leave the EU. The remainers weren't having it

Sorry, I think I’m getting your point now I’ve read this. You think that being in the 52% who voted for Brexit and got what they wanted means you’re marginalised? I’d say you have the best of all worlds because, as I recall, you also have an Irish passport so didn’t lose any freedom of movement etc. Am I right that this is what you’re talking about?

[duncs500]

Labour seem to be throwing quite a bit of effort into our constituency, which is surprising given they came third last time. Mind you, the boundary changed, so maybe we look a bit less Tory since then. The Labour candidate definitely seems to be occupying the most social media advertising space and the biggest leaflet bombardment.

I ended up watching the recording of the hustings held in the local town church to try and get a feel for the candidates, which did help a bit.

Putting the national debate aside, it is also important consider the candidate too and whether they have, or will go on to, get shit done and represent well.

Hard to know how much weight to give to each aspect though.

Anyway, it's done now, my postal vote has gone.

[Gavster]

The thing is anyone who has moderate views and is scared to say them is a victim of a scare campaign.

I guess your idea of moderate and the group I'm suggesting might exist would be different - and therefore they might want to keep their opinions to themselves.

And I'm basing this of personal experience, post Brexit where I was vilified across many social media platforms , called all sorts of names from Gammon to Outright Racist for trying to engage in healthy debate on why I voted to leave the EU. The remainers weren't having it

Sorry, I think I’m getting your point now I’ve read this. You think that being in the 52% who voted for Brexit and got what they wanted means you’re marginalised? I’d say you have the best of all worlds because, as I recall, you also have an Irish passport so didn’t lose any freedom of movement etc. Am I right that this is what you’re talking about?

In my experience on social media the people who hold traditionally left-wing values are way more antagonistic and abusive than people with traditional right-wing values. This abuse seems to be grounded in an assumption that left-wing values are morally correct, therefore anyone who appears to be suggesting something that opposes that value (e.g. eating meat) is an oppressor. Therefore they are entitled, or in fact required, to attack that oppressor. At least that's what it feels like when I get called a Tory cunt, ironically I've only ever voted Labour or Lib Dem, I'm firmly left of centre.

[dinny_g]

Not quite but there's sort of two points overlapping so I'll admit it's not clear.

It's all just postulating but my initial point was to wonder if, at a very high level, the rise of right wing support across Europe is not entirely down to people with full strength right wing views but people "right of the left, left of the right but still, right of center" (Not my quote - that came from an Italian paper ) who don't feel properly represented but vote to the right instead of the left

This sort of morphed into why this is and I wondered if they felt they couldn't express their views against the accepted norms - Scare campaign as Zed put it. EDIT - and Gav, above summarised this view better than I could

I'm not saying I feel marginalised by the Brexit referendum because as I you rightly point out, I'm in the majority there. But the reaction in the aftermath has caused me to believe that while there are certain aspects to public policy that I do not support, to try to debate this would result in the same outcome. So I try not to.

And for clarity, I only hold an EU passport but I'm in the process of applying for a UK passport. And the opposite for my son.

And yes, I don't know what Irony means...

[ZedLeg]

I find this really frustrating as the token left wing extremist as there are people on all sides like that but for some reason a huge amount of time and effort is directed towards centre right (or further) people who feel “silenced”.

It’s almost like being told your opinion is always correct for 40 years skews how you view the world

[dinny_g]

The medium doesn't help.

I've said before, I'd love to sit across from you with a rake of pints and set the world to rights and I know I would certainly leave a more informed person.

But it message board snippets, when we're supposed to be working ( ) , things naturally tend to sway to either extreme.

[Gavster]

The medium doesn't help.

That's a massive one. Social media allows people to create their own stories about other people in the absence of a more nuanced discussion.

I know two content creators, both with around 1m followers each; one is vehemently left wing, and the other one is a really lovely guy who's probably left of centre and makes comedy videos tearing apart different parts of the UK. For some reason, he's been widely embraced by middle England and right-wingers, even though there's nothing right-wing in his videos; I think it's just because he drinks beer and makes jokes about how crap some parts of the UK are. People fill in the gaps based on their own opinions.

Anyway, the left wing creator made a huge fuss and went to the hassle of creating a takedown video about how this guy is awful.

Eventually they met at an event, had a chat, had a few beers and they're now mates and even made a video together

[ZedLeg]

The Al Murray effect

[V8Granite]

I’m voting Conservative as he is the only one against some big solar farms locally and is part of a group making progress on the local leisure centre.

Easy enough.

Dave!

[Jobbo]

The Al Murray effect

Is that where you use satire to make a point and find your audience is people agreeing with it unironically?

[V8Granite]

The Al Murray effect

Is that where you use satire to make a point and find your audience is people agreeing with it unironically?

Just no pints for the ladies.

Dave!