Trump

[Swervin_Mervin]

I only saw the Biden bit where he was talking gibberish, it was a car crash. FFS.

For balance, one of trump's claims was that democrats kill babies. Literally. He thinks that abortions are routinely carried out after birth.

He's a fucking idiot and if you support him you're a fucking idiot and if you voted for him you're a fucking idiot. Hows that for balance.

The biggest mistake I made was thinking Americans are like us because they speak the same language, they're really not. At least half of them are fucking idiots.

Even when you think you're speaking to someone nice and normal, potentially even quite intelligent, they'll suddenly drop some bombshell that leaves you thinking that event he clever ones are fucking idiots.

Idiocracy was a foretelling.

[GG.]

“ Biden actually wants to prevent tax increases on anyone making less than $400,000, which is the vast majority of taxpayers.”

That’s pretty incredible compared to the mindset here.

Part of the reason they're a third richer than us. Work hard, get paid more, keep more of your money.

All well and good whinging about income inequality but if the UK is equivalent in GDP per capita to pretty much the poorest of US states its hard to say that we have anything like a sensible model of taxation, spending and investment.

I think it's very important to look at income inequality in that scenario tbh. I'd be interested to see if the working poor in the US would prefer a system where they got a better min wage and weren't trapped into jobs for healthcare.

Yes it would be interesting to survey the average working class American but I'd be very surpised if you found many that would want to swap for our system. Across most industries down to staff working in take away restaurants, Americans are paid much more. Obviously things like healthcare costs will erode some of that but again will be offset by the cheaper cost of living.

[Rich B]

Part of the reason they're a third richer than us. Work hard, get paid more, keep more of your money.

All well and good whinging about income inequality but if the UK is equivalent in GDP per capita to pretty much the poorest of US states its hard to say that we have anything like a sensible model of taxation, spending and investment.

I think it's very important to look at income inequality in that scenario tbh. I'd be interested to see if the working poor in the US would prefer a system where they got a better min wage and weren't trapped into jobs for healthcare.

Yes it would be interesting to survey the average working class American but I'd be very surpised if you found many that would want to swap for our system. Across most industries down to staff working in take away restaurants, Americans are paid much more. Obviously things like healthcare costs will erode some of that but again will be offset by the cheaper cost of living.

plus they're saving loads of money on holidays by not having any!

[ZedLeg]

I’m trying to find a decent source to confirm but according to what I’m seeing from a search, the cost of living is higher in the US.

[GG.]

There are various sources saying that the US is cheaper but my expectation is they are not fully accounting for the cost of housing and the fact that is most people's predominant monthly expense. All well and good groceries being 20% cheaper here but if your housing costs are 20% more, that will make much more of a difference to most people.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... tudy-finds

There are some interesting comments in the above about mortality rates being higher in the US, yet if you've ever had the joy of going through maternity provision in the UK with rationed private room provision and shared birthing wards afterwards you'll appreciate that is far from the whole picture when comparing the US to the UK.

[ZedLeg]

I’m not sure how your last point tracks.

What does lack of provision for private birthing rooms have to do with the medical outcomes of the service?

[GG.]

Part of medical care is not just about whether you die or not but also not making you feel like absolute shit through the process. The lack of capacity in the UK system also cannot possibly lead to better medical outcomes either. I mean look at cancer - 91% of Americans are alive at 5 years versus 51% in the UK. We should be absolutely ashamed of the NHS (the organistion not the people within it obviously) not proud of it.

[Nefarious]

https://www.smf.co.uk/wp-content/upload ... 2023-1.pdf

KEY POINTS
• The US is around 30% richer than the UK – that means the average American
enjoys more of most goods and services than the average Briton.
• There are some exceptions: British people spend more on clothing and
footwear and consume similar levels of recreation, culture and
education
• Four categories – health, transport, housing, miscellaneous (largely private
insurance) – account for 95% of the American advantage over the UK in
living standards.
• Healthcare spending accounts for 12 of the 30 percentage point gap;
housing 9 percentage points; transport 4 percentage points.
• In the case of healthcare and transport, it can be argued that the US wastes
its economic advantages with socially inefficient and ineffective spending:
• Higher healthcare consumption (even accounting for cost differences)
might buy more convenience for many, but a range of poor social
choices mean that outcomes are on average worse.
• Similarly, with transport, bigger cars and lack of walkability greatly
increase the risk of death or injury on the road.
• The same cannot be said of housing: British people spend a comparable
amount of money, but American dwellings are 60% larger on average.

[GG.]

Yes I read that.

Interestingly for this forum, their view of transport costs are amusing. Apparently the US squanders their wealth because they use cars more often. Well I tell you what - maybe that's because they don't want to sit on the fucking bus or overcrowded trains!

That's not squandering wealth but a better standard of living!

Same with healthcare - spend less in the UK but if you're part of that statistic that is dead 5 years post cancer diagnosis, I'm not sure that's a shining accolade for our system.

The housing cost metric also shows how the stats tell a partial truth - same costs paid but 60% more living space is not the same cost of housing!

[Mito Man]

I'd rather squander my money on cars than a season ticket for the train

[GG.]

Fuckin' truth.

[Nefarious]

Weeeeeelllllll, there's a bit of that, but (presumably just down to a combination of the size of the place, and poor worker rights) average commute times are much greater in the US than the UK. Would I rather spend 2 hours either way in my car or half an hour on public transport? Debatable, but I'd probably chose to grit my teeth and tolerate the loser cruiser.

[ZedLeg]

I don’t know enough about the systems to really comment but what happens if someone without insurance gets cancer?

Are they included in that 91% survival rate, if so does it come with a bankruptcy inducing debt?

As for the car thing. Car loans are the next sub prime bubble, the lack of infrastructure for public transport forces people to buy cars they can’t really afford.

[GG.]

Weeeeeelllllll, there's a bit of that, but (presumably just down to a combination of the size of the place, and poor worker rights) average commute times are much greater in the US than the UK. Would I rather spend 2 hours either way in my car or half an hour on public transport? Debatable, but I'd probably chose to grit my teeth and tolerate the loser cruiser.

As someone that has to spend an hour commuting on bus and train in London despite living 20 minutes drive away (probably 40 in rush hour traffic)... if there was a car park near work, I'd use it and I would drive.

[ZedLeg]

20 minutes drive in a city is a 20 mins cycle mate

[GG.]

Doesn't work so well when you have to wear a suit to the office (or like arriving alive).

People do of course but then shower and change at work. That isn't really a regime I want to follow

[Sundayjumper]

• Similarly, with transport, bigger cars and lack of walkability greatly
increase the risk of death or injury on the road.
• The same cannot be said of housing: British people spend a comparable
amount of money, but American dwellings are 60% larger on average.

There's got to be some correlation with things being bigger, and those things also being further apart.....

[Simon]

I've always viewed it that the US is the better place to live if you're rich, the UK is the better place to live if you're poor, weather etc non-withstanding.

[GG.]

I expect the above is correct but replace "rich" with "median income or above".

[Mito Man]

One nice thing about the US is if you're unhappy with taxes or certain things in your state you can move and there will be somewhere that suits you.