Bye Bye Sunak..

[duncs500]

How do you make a clear plan to completely change an org as big as the NHS

Yeah, it's clearly impossible, let's not bother. I'm sure we can spend our way out of this mess.

[Rich B]

imagine the process to fix these a million and one issues would involve spending more money and time on investigating and fixing them though. Do we carry on cutting public services in the meantime?

The reality is, we need to fix these issues, but that can only happen if there's resource allocated to do so, and that can't be at the expense of other services.

Which is exactly what austerity didn't do.

Can't imagine why our roads look like the surface of the moon and the local library has been closed, sold off and turned into a pub...

a pub?! They're all closed and the land sold for flats round here!

I'm still perplexed by the Tories openly saying in interviews that they want to reduce people's taxes, but obviously public services will have to be cut too. They're literally saying it as a good thing!

You know how you can't get a GP appointment any more and the rivers are full of sewage - they want to make that worse - but you'll pay less tax! Yay!

[ZedLeg]

How do you make a clear plan to completely change an org as big as the NHS

Yeah, it's clearly impossible, let's not bother. I'm sure we can spend our way out of this mess.

My point was that if there is a plan it'll be so complex as to be incomprehensible to the layman.

It'll also come with it's own significant costs for efficiency consultants etc

[ZedLeg]

imagine the process to fix these a million and one issues would involve spending more money and time on investigating and fixing them though. Do we carry on cutting public services in the meantime?

The reality is, we need to fix these issues, but that can only happen if there's resource allocated to do so, and that can't be at the expense of other services.

Which is exactly what austerity didn't do.

Can't imagine why our roads look like the surface of the moon and the local library has been closed, sold off and turned into a pub...

a pub?! They're all closed and the land sold for flats round here!

I'm still perplexed by the Tories openly saying in interviews that they want to reduce people's taxes, but obviously public services will have to be cut too. They're literally saying it as a good thing!

You know how you can't get a GP appointment any more and the rivers are full of sewage - they want to make that worse - but you'll pay less tax! Yay!

It's even better than that, when they say tax cuts for all they mean the people they like (old and/or rich). Their current tax plans don't help the people who need it most at all.

[drcarlos]

How do you make a clear plan to completely change an org as big as the NHS

Carefully.

It'll take two years of meetings with a per diem of all members of the board of £300 each for food and accomodation.....etc etc

Take off, nuke it from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.

[V8Granite]

Sir John Rose sent an email out to all Rolls-Royce employees once and it said.

Rolls-Royce is an engineering company that produces anything from a screw, to a jet engine to a ship. It is a company of engineers and for that reason they will not be put into the redundancy pool.

So managers who had managers who had managers went into the pool and in 18 months the company were hugely profitable and making more parts and assemblies than ever.

Mr Langley did the same with Bergen Engines. They removed non front line staff who weren’t essential.

I’d be amazed if the NHS isn’t full of self serving job creating jobs which just slow everything down and create waste.

Dave!

[Swervin_Mervin]

Sir John Rose sent an email out to all Rolls-Royce employees once and it said.

Rolls-Royce is an engineering company that produces anything from a screw, to a jet engine to a ship. It is a company of engineers and for that reason they will not be put into the redundancy pool.

So managers who had managers who had managers went into the pool and in 18 months the company were hugely profitable and making more parts and assemblies than ever.

Mr Langley did the same with Bergen Engines. They removed non front line staff who weren’t essential.

I’d be amazed if the NHS isn’t full of self serving job creating jobs which just slow everything down and create waste.

Dave!

See all public sector Dave. The public sector survives largely due to the hardworking at the coal face and the very basic tenet of not being able to collapse.

Add into the mix of wastage private contracting of public services also. Usually to fuckwits like Crapita.

[V8Granite]

How do you make a clear plan to completely change an org as big as the NHS

Yeah, it's clearly impossible, let's not bother. I'm sure we can spend our way out of this mess.

My point was that if there is a plan it'll be so complex as to be incomprehensible to the layman.

It'll also come with it's own significant costs for efficiency consultants etc

Efficiency consultants can fuck off. I’ve seen it twice where people who know nothing about the business came in, had great ideas, got paid loads, nothing worked and then they left. Once in Bergen and once at the Crosley works in Manchester.

But….

A German chap came to Perkins in the late 90s, said he could save them a lot of money, they agreed a way where he was paid a percentage of the savings and nothing more. Never got paid till it was proven to work.

He did things like automatic roller shutter doors, so you had more shelving, so less deliveries but larger Lorrie’s, re-arranged the spares, had a foolproof visual way of seeing when a parts stock was low, so the stores replenished it easily. So less stopping of the track.
Loads of little things that didn’t involve software or lots of training or downtime. He made a shit load of money from that and Perkins saved millions.

That’s how things can be done, you don’t have to spend your way to efficiency.

Dave!

[Swervin_Mervin]

How do you make a clear plan to completely change an org as big as the NHS

Yeah, it's clearly impossible, let's not bother. I'm sure we can spend our way out of this mess.

Without significant cross-party agreement to commit to long term delivery of reform it won't ever happen. And cross-party working on major issues or infrastructure projects no longer seems possible.

[Rich B]

Sir John Rose sent an email out to all Rolls-Royce employees once and it said.

Rolls-Royce is an engineering company that produces anything from a screw, to a jet engine to a ship. It is a company of engineers and for that reason they will not be put into the redundancy pool.

So managers who had managers who had managers went into the pool and in 18 months the company were hugely profitable and making more parts and assemblies than ever.

Mr Langley did the same with Bergen Engines. They removed non front line staff who weren’t essential.

I’d be amazed if the NHS isn’t full of self serving job creating jobs which just slow everything down and create waste.

Dave!

Thats kind of the issue - Rolls Royce employs 22k people over 7 sites - that's a number one person could broadly understand all the roles of given some time.

the NHS employs 1.5million people and there's over a thousand hospitals alone!

[ZedLeg]

They still spent money for that efficiency, it was just his fee and the costs for the changes he made.

I understand how you make efficiency savings in a business, I've done it before.

My point with the NHS is that you can sack thousands of people and cut services to the bone and it's not going to fix that the NHS has been underfunded by billions.

[Mito Man]

It isn’t so much due to the NHS but due to all the regulations they’re governed with. I don’t think you can make it more efficient but each of those wasteful self serving jobs was created because an incident took place which should never have happened, they had a massive review and then implemented those jobs onto every single health service provider in the country.
Worst thing has been the price rises for everything since covid - it’s been many multiples over inflation for all medical items.

[V8Granite]

Sir John Rose sent an email out to all Rolls-Royce employees once and it said.

Rolls-Royce is an engineering company that produces anything from a screw, to a jet engine to a ship. It is a company of engineers and for that reason they will not be put into the redundancy pool.

So managers who had managers who had managers went into the pool and in 18 months the company were hugely profitable and making more parts and assemblies than ever.

Mr Langley did the same with Bergen Engines. They removed non front line staff who weren’t essential.

I’d be amazed if the NHS isn’t full of self serving job creating jobs which just slow everything down and create waste.

Dave!

Thats kind of the issue - Rolls Royce employs 22k people over 7 sites - that's a number one person could broadly understand all the roles of given some time.

the NHS employs 1.5million people and there's over a thousand hospitals alone!

So that’s 1000 times the savings for each change, the person who puts the orders into the form and delivers it to the person who approves the form to be sent to the person who deals with outside contractors.

It’s just a business at the end of the day. You shouldn’t have to look at the xxx billion that needs to be saved. You just start at each obvious bit of wastage and then keep going.

How long would it take, 10 years or more, less, who cares, Aslong as wastage isn’t tolerated a long way before it hits people doing the fixing and cutting and sewing.

Dave!

[V8Granite]

They still spent money for that efficiency, it was just his fee and the costs for the changes he made.

I understand how you make efficiency savings in a business, I've done it before.

My point with the NHS is that you can sack thousands of people and cut services to the bone and it's not going to fix that the NHS has been underfunded by billions.

Yes but the guy only got paid as it worked. He took a single payment which was from the savings, not from a pit that was already there, he (well 3 of them) created the money from nothing essentially to be able to be paid.

Dave!

[Rich B]

Sir John Rose sent an email out to all Rolls-Royce employees once and it said.

Rolls-Royce is an engineering company that produces anything from a screw, to a jet engine to a ship. It is a company of engineers and for that reason they will not be put into the redundancy pool.

So managers who had managers who had managers went into the pool and in 18 months the company were hugely profitable and making more parts and assemblies than ever.

Mr Langley did the same with Bergen Engines. They removed non front line staff who weren’t essential.

I’d be amazed if the NHS isn’t full of self serving job creating jobs which just slow everything down and create waste.

Dave!

Thats kind of the issue - Rolls Royce employs 22k people over 7 sites - that's a number one person could broadly understand all the roles of given some time.

the NHS employs 1.5million people and there's over a thousand hospitals alone!

So that’s 1000 times the savings for each change, the person who puts the orders into the form and delivers it to the person who approves the form to be sent to the person who deals with outside contractors.

It’s just a business at the end of the day. You shouldn’t have to look at the xxx billion that needs to be saved. You just start at each obvious bit of wastage and then keep going.

How long would it take, 10 years or more, less, who cares, Aslong as wastage isn’t tolerated a long way before it hits people doing the fixing and cutting and sewing.

Dave!

I imagine this process has been happening for a long time already - hell, if it hasn't been happening in the last 14 years then we have bigger issues!

[ZedLeg]

They still spent money for that efficiency, it was just his fee and the costs for the changes he made.

I understand how you make efficiency savings in a business, I've done it before.

My point with the NHS is that you can sack thousands of people and cut services to the bone and it's not going to fix that the NHS has been underfunded by billions.

Yes but the guy only got paid as it worked. He took a single payment which was from the savings, not from a pit that was already there, he (well 3 of them) created the money from nothing essentially to be able to be paid.

Dave!

He didn't create money from nothing, he saw savings that others missed. It's not magic.

[V8Granite]

There is a lot of self made job security in business where you don’t physically produce something. Where I work if I don’t pull my weight the power station or ship is late, which costs individuals money and they don’t tolerate it.

I’d expect in an office environment that’s much harder to weedle out of people.

I bet when you run a project you have allocated jobs for different people or departments. If the business got really big then people could easily hide and ride on the backs of those working hard.
We paid a guy back in 2021 to do an auxiliaries layout specific to a site where the strazenica jabs were being made. I recognised it was a copy and paste from a site in Chittagong in Bangladesh and it would never have worked properly. That’s purely by chance that was spotted, yet he was getting paid a lot to rehash that rubbish.

Dave!

[V8Granite]

They still spent money for that efficiency, it was just his fee and the costs for the changes he made.

I understand how you make efficiency savings in a business, I've done it before.

My point with the NHS is that you can sack thousands of people and cut services to the bone and it's not going to fix that the NHS has been underfunded by billions.

Yes but the guy only got paid as it worked. He took a single payment which was from the savings, not from a pit that was already there, he (well 3 of them) created the money from nothing essentially to be able to be paid.

Dave!

He didn't create money from nothing, he saw savings that others missed. It's not magic.

He was paid from a pot of money that before him was not there. It wasn’t available as it was being spent unwisely on waste.

If he made a £1 loaf of bread suddenly cost 90p, he created that extra money to be spent.

Dave!

[ZedLeg]

It's been a bit of an eye opener coming from a very lean company to one that's bigger.

So much waste that could be fixed very easily but inertia keeps people doing the same thing. I'm not about it tbh, I've got an interview with a much smaller place tomorrow.

[ZedLeg]

Yes but the guy only got paid as it worked. He took a single payment which was from the savings, not from a pit that was already there, he (well 3 of them) created the money from nothing essentially to be able to be paid.

Dave!

He didn't create money from nothing, he saw savings that others missed. It's not magic.

He was paid from a pot of money that before him was not there. It wasn’t available as it was being spent unwisely on waste.

If he made a £1 loaf of bread suddenly cost 90p, he created that extra money to be spent.

Dave!

It's semantics but I disagree, the money was there he just freed it up for his pocket

I'd bet that he wouldn't have made that agreement if he didn't see some significant savings as soon as he started looking at the business.