Bye Bye Sunak..

[GG.]

In certain areas such as where I live in South London it is basically mandatory. You really really would not want to send your son to a state comp near us as much from a safety angle as educational. If we had a lovely bucolic life in the countryside with a good local grammar then I'd probably have already taken my son out. The level of discrimination against private school pupils for university admissions means if there is a good alternative you'd probably take it - for many people there isn't.

As with most left leaning plans to destroy private sector alternatives - how about just making the crap state sector better so that most people would not deem it worthwhile... Of course that involves actual thought and effort so smashing those seen to be better off will stay as plan A.

Cue the labour front bench advocating to raise MPs salaries to cover the increased cost of private schooling...

[Rich B]

I’d have to have found an extra £2kpcm NET to pay the fees of three kids (more cos third child wants to board during A-levels, so 30kpa.)

an extra £2k pcm? So you're paying £8k pcm for 3 kids at the moment?!

[integrale_evo]

Good grief. Different world!

[IanF]

I’d have to have found an extra £2kpcm NET to pay the fees of three kids (more cos third child wants to board during A-levels, so 30kpa.)

an extra £2k pcm? So you're paying £8k pcm for 3 kids at the moment?!

I don’t pay monthly, but 40k, three times a year, so 10kpcm broken down.

[Rich B]

I’d have to have found an extra £2kpcm NET to pay the fees of three kids (more cos third child wants to board during A-levels, so 30kpa.)

an extra £2k pcm? So you're paying £8k pcm for 3 kids at the moment?!

I don’t pay monthly, but 40k, three times a year, so 10kpcm broken down.

[Simon]

On the other end of the scale, my best friends send their little boy to a private school in North West London. They're definitely not rich, and it requires my friends wife to spend 3 hours in the car every day getting him to and from school, just because he has some special educational needs and there just isn't a good state school in the area that would offer anywhere near the support he needs to flourish.

I know the maths of the decision in question, and it's only possible because of a timely grandparents death that the money is there at all, but it'll all be soaked up in school fees and when that's gone it's gone. There'll unlikely be more for a private secondary school.

If VAT was applied to those fees he'd definitely be out of that school - a school where he's really felt at home, comfortable, supported and safe, all because of the politics of jealousy. The argument will always be that he should be able to get that quality of schooling in the state sector, but the reality is that you can't and you never will, no matter anyone's best intentions.

[Carlos]

As others have mentioned the funding of schooling from aunt/uncle/grandparent etc has tax benefits in terms of iht pre/post death so an extra 20% isn't going to change those scenarios.

It's still a generational wealth benefit.

[Swervin_Mervin]

I’d have to have found an extra £2kpcm NET to pay the fees of three kids (more cos third child wants to board during A-levels, so 30kpa.)

an extra £2k pcm? So you're paying £8k pcm for 3 kids at the moment?!

I don’t pay monthly, but 40k, three times a year, so 10kpcm broken down.

Oof A perfect example right there though of the complexity to just this one issue. Private school is a very catch all term that really does not convey the sheer range of school types nor their fees and the lives of those that send their kids to them.

[V8Granite]

When my Uncle went to Uni it was only the clever and hard working.

When I left school, everyone who stayed on got into uni and most were fuckwits with shit grades.

Dave!

what does your uncle do?

He is an insurance broker now, he did Maths and something else at Uni.

I don’t know if these figures are true but I’ve seen 8-9% in 1980 and now it’s 36%.

Dave

[V8Granite]

an extra £2k pcm? So you're paying £8k pcm for 3 kids at the moment?!

I don’t pay monthly, but 40k, three times a year, so 10kpcm broken down.

Your kids better appreciate that or at least invent the ever lasting gob stopper or something

Dave!

[jamcg]

Don’t suppose they’re looking for a plumbing teacher?

[Rich B]

When my Uncle went to Uni it was only the clever and hard working.

When I left school, everyone who stayed on got into uni and most were fuckwits with shit grades.

Dave!

what does your uncle do?

He is an insurance broker now, he did Maths and something else at Uni.

I don’t know if these figures are true but I’ve seen 8-9% in 1980 and now it’s 36%.

Dave

yeah, your uncle probably isn't the best example we should be quoting now for who should be at uni.

[GG.]

I’d have to have found an extra £2kpcm NET to pay the fees of three kids (more cos third child wants to board during A-levels, so 30kpa.)

an extra £2k pcm? So you're paying £8k pcm for 3 kids at the moment?!

I don’t pay monthly, but 40k, three times a year, so 10kpcm broken down.

I thought my current £1800pcm was painful but you've put that in perpective somewhat! Then again that is one kid in day school versus three with some boarding...

[ZedLeg]

For what it's worth I do feel for people on lower incomes that feel that going private is their only option. It's a pretty damning indictment of how much we (as a country) have failed the state school system.

Maybe if I was in charge I'd have a concerted program of school improvements before bringing in any vat change, give parents a better choice.

[dinny_g]

There are over half a million children in private schools so the first thing you would have to do is build hundreds and hundreds of schools and expand hundreds more if possible before focusing on improving them.

If you improve the state school system first, the unfortunate outcome will be children from normal families loosing out on places to children from wealthier families when schools are over subscribed.

[ZedLeg]

That's some amazing "what's the point of doing anything" logic dinny.

[dinny_g]

No it's more do things in the right order so as not to make the situation much worse before it gets better...

[ZedLeg]

So what's the right order? State schools desperately need investment (whether that's new building or improving existing properties) and if we spend that money first maybe the people who're stretching to go private will have a better option. Folk who are more well off will continue to go private as it's not just the education for them.

[dinny_g]

I think there should be a little of both, or a more measured approach

By all means invest in the state schooling system - We're fortunate in the fact that my son went to the local state school which has the best GCSE and A Level results in Milton Keynes and also, is not falling down) but I'm not so naive to believe a hell of a lot of schools need serious investment.

As for taxing the Private School sector, rather than apply a blanket tax policy to it, have certain schools and students liable and others not. For example, religious schools (where there isn't a state religious school available) should be exempt. Students with special educational needs that need to be accommodated should be exempt. Students on scholarship (Sporting, music, art etc) should be exempt etc.

The children of all Non Nationals (as Mito referred to) should have to pay VAT. Then, have a staggered approach. All current students should be exempt. Only Levy VAT on new students starting in 12 months. Then, ramp up the tax rates - 5% for the first 2 years, then 10% for 2 years up to the 20%.

But most critically, ALL of the Education VAT collected to to into improving state schools. That way parents really will have choice but if they exercise that choice (by going to state school, rather than private) the system should be better able to accommodate the increased numbers

If the VAT just goes into general the Taxation pool then it really is just a tax grab on the richer sectors of society.

naive know but far more preferable than just lumping 20% on All Private Schools IMO

[ZedLeg]

As for taxing the Private School sector, rather than apply a blanket tax policy to it, have certain schools and students liable and others not. For example, religious schools (where there isn't a state religious school available) should be exempt. Students with special educational needs that need to be accommodated should be exempt. Students on scholarship (Sporting, music, art etc) should be exempt etc.

Part of my view on this is that the way the government tax and spend is hopelessly complicated. I'd rather a system where people who wanted to go private due to having a disabled child would be able to claim back fees or offered scholarships if there aren't suitable state schools nearby to more exemptions.

Religious schools shouldn't get special treatment.