EV Thread

[Rich B]

Synthetic fuels are still relatively inefficient, expensive to produce and still produce C02 as they burn.

Why do you think they are?

so you're already saying there's alternate synthetic fuels being developed for "fossil fuel" cars in an effort to make them cleaner. Not necessarily the end of the line that Barry talks of for "fossil fuel" then...

[dinny_g]

It's a hugely complicated thing to weigh up IMO, factors like vehicle life are interesting too,

Very true. The only fair comparison is:

The CO2 of building a ICE car + the CO2 to get Fuel to the station to cover 60,000 miles + the CO2 burned in driving 60,000 miles of real world driving + the CO2 to decommission the car at the end

vs

The CO2 to build an EV car + the CO2 to get power to batteries for 60,000 miles, taking into account real world driving and battery degradation + the CO2 to decommission it at the end, including safe treatment of the battery.

And to muddy waters further, there's increasing owners charging from their own solar too of course. EV charging can only get cleaner, fossil won't..

I don't disagree - so NOW, the tag line should be "in 5 years, owning an EV will... probably... produce less Co2 than an ICE car, so long as you have solar panels... and a Battery system...

Look I'm all for EV cars - my next one will probably be EV. It's just a lot of the "Environmental Bullshit" that surrounds them at the moment that grinds my gears.

[Barry]

Synthetic fuels are still relatively inefficient, expensive to produce and still produce C02 as they burn.

Why do you think they are?

so you're already saying there's alternate synthetic fuels being developed for "fossil fuel" cars in an effort to make them cleaner. Not necessarily the end of the line that Barry talks of for "fossil fuel" then...

It's end of the line for mass use, when you look at the energy cost to produce those fuels compared to just using it directly in an EV. It's a nice thing to have for us petrolheads, but it won't replace fossil fuels at the same level of current use. And burning fossil or synthetic fuels is still a high cost to the environment, compared to renewable sources of electricity.

[dinny_g]

I’m still hopeful for Hydrogen Fuel cells to be honest Barry

[Swervin_Mervin]

That's why I didn't state it as a fact, I'm just reporting I've seen other claims that suggest otherwise. I do find it hard to believe that an EV with far less moving parts, and some dubious metals, is somehow taking so long to balance out, compared to all those extra parts that need raw material, manufacturing, transporting, assembling, transporting, building onto the car. And then there's oil rigs, refineries, transporting the fuel, all those fuel stations Vs cables and a few units to plug into.

It's a hugely complicated thing to weigh up IMO, factors like vehicle life are interesting too, assuming the chassis lasts about the same, the batteries can be repurposed for home/business storage, and there's less components to recycle from the rest of it.

Ignoring the fact we like ICE vehicles as a hobby, I see EV as improving air quality in built up areas at least. These days I hate getting caught behind a derv.

Thought I'd do a quick search to illustrate points

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorri ... still-win/

This seems a fair balance on a quick skim and even they say it's more likely 15/20k miles, which is a third of the Volvo claim.

I imagine that battery production is the biggest issue for EVs as it has a fook-massive carbon footprint. It even relies on refining to produce synthetic graphite, something we're very good at as it happens but not many people know - probably because it doesn't paint a picture of eco heaven:



Volvo's figures did vary notably depending on the mix of energy sources, and on that front they seemed fairly thorough - looking at EU28 average sources, then hypotheticals such as pure wind etc.

Btw I've just checked and Volvo's estimated brake-even point (based on EU28 average energy sources) was actually 77,000km, so just shy of 48,000miles.

[Barry]

I’m still hopeful for Hydrogen Fuel cells to be honest Barry

Same answer It looks like it has a place at larger scales, where you can produce the gas on site, but for private vehicles it's really not viable from what I've seen. Fossil industry obviously trying really hard to make a case for it, for selfish reasons mainly.

[Barry]

@Swervin_Mervin
Is the graphite production still required in the new sodium batteries? They seem keen to move away from cobalt and others, painting sodium as a good alternative, but if there's still high costs from other aspects?!

[V8Granite]

I’m still hopeful for Hydrogen Fuel cells to be honest Barry

Same answer It looks like it has a place at larger scales, where you can produce the gas on site, but for private vehicles it's really not viable from what I've seen. Fossil industry obviously trying really hard to make a case for it, for selfish reasons mainly.

Part of the reason is the gas engine market is going hydrogen. So it will start with a mix of natural and hydrogen, which many engines can manage up to around 20%. Much above that will need new hardware and also mapping which isn’t as simple as it seems.

I might pop a T-Piece on the oven line just incase haha

Dave!

[Barry]

It'll be interesting to see how JCB get on too.

I won't be buying a hydrogen boiler though, heat pump all the way for me. FRO pumping H into my home.

[Swervin_Mervin]

It'll be interesting to see how JCB get on too.

I won't be buying a hydrogen boiler though, heat pump all the way for me. FRO pumping H into my home.

Heat pumps are hugely flawed for much of the UK's ageing housing stock as well though. They'll be the next ppi/diesel-claim imo.

If I had to replace now (thankfull don't as we got a nice shiny Viessmann gas boiler only a couple of years ago) I think I'd be looking at an electric boiler.

[mik]

Concept only. Looks like the love child of an S1 Elise and an A110.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new- ... sports-car

Weight “closer to 1tonne than 2”. So a 1490kg Elise then?

[Mito Man]

The original Elise based Tesla Roadster was only 1.3 tonnes. You'd hope after 15 years it would be better.

[jamcg]

The original Elise based Tesla Roadster was only 1.3 tonnes. You'd hope after 15 years it would be better.

Whatever weight saving has been gained in 15 years will have been lost in safety systems

[DeskJockey]

The original Elise based Tesla Roadster was only 1.3 tonnes. You'd hope after 15 years it would be better.

Whatever weight saving has been gained in 15 years will have been lost in safety systems

And creature comforts.

[Mito Man]

Fiat 500ev with 24kw is under 1300kg. You’d think they could get near that even with a bigger battery pack if it’s so lightweight.

[duncs500]

6mins to fully charge could be good though, it seems like the car is just a platform to promote the battery/charging tech.

[V8Granite]

This super fast charging wish will be the downfall of the grid, you mark my words.

(Angry old Man shakes fist at clouds)

Dave!

[Holley]

Fiat 500ev with 24kw is under 1300kg. You’d think they could get near that even with a bigger battery pack if it’s so lightweight.

Original i3 was only 1195kg (non range extender).

[Carlos]

My 42kw i3s is 1365kg so you'd expect it to be sub that.

[PaulJ]

Bearing in mind I'm getting old and my last 23 years of motoring have been various Boxsters and Caymans, should I put my name down for a (2025?) Electric Cayman? I still grin when I see the needle passes 7000, and I like to think others enjoy the sound as well.

Bit of a first world problem I know, but what do you guys think?