M3 Touring

[Carlos]

M2 comp doesn't have adaptive suspension - no comfort mode here!

My E92 M3 had adaptive, but I just ran it on hard.

Maybe it's you that's hard or roads are just different lol

I begrudged paying for EDC when ordering it but the car was pretty much left in Comfort for dampers. We have a lot of speed humps and crappy pockmarked roads though.

Sport or RichB HARD would be trackday use.

[Rich B]

I've clearly taken a pounding over the years and can't feel it anymore....

[IanF]

M2 comp doesn't have adaptive suspension - no comfort mode here!

My E92 M3 had adaptive, but I just ran it on hard.

Maybe it's you that's hard or roads are just different lol

I begrudged paying for EDC when ordering it but the car was pretty much left in Comfort for dampers. We have a lot of speed humps and crappy pockmarked roads though.

Sport or RichB HARD would be trackday use.

RicHARD B

[mik]

Fuxache @Ascender

[Brannen]

One of the replies says base was about 87k, so not a bad profit if they can actually sell it for that. Can't understand why someone would want to spend over 100k on a 3 series though. bonkers.

Just on the flipping of cars, saw a video this week stating that you don't pay any tax on that profit, so it makes more sense to me now why people flip cars.

Video for reference was on the Mark McCann channel, he picked up an Emira and sold it within an hour and was also asking around for how much he could sell his soon arriving Lambo Urus Perf for (not that he was actually going to sell it, but crazy what he could get for it!).

[Simon]

Ambiguous.

Cars are normally known as 'wasting assets' for Capital Gains Tax purposes, so if you bought a car (classic or otherwise) and it happened to go up in value in weeks, months or years then you wouldn't pay any tax on its disposal. This is because cars are expected to lose value normally, so you wouldn't want the world and his dog offsetting car depreciation against their other capital gains for tax purposes.

However, if you buy a car with the explicit purpose of reselling it at a higher price in a very short time frame, particularly without it fulfilling it's purpose as your _car_, then it can be argued that it's a trade and therefore subject to income tax, if operating as an individual. Do they think that car dealers don't pay taxes on their profits for buying and selling new cars?

I'd like to see some of these flippers taken to task by HMRC.

It's the same way in which people just assume that their main property is always allowable under the principle private residence CGT exemption, however, there have been cases where HMRC have pursued house flippers who buy a property, do it up immediately, move in for a short time during the works and then sell it straight on for a profit. HMRC won those cases. The argument is that the profit is the purpose of the trade rather than a consequence.

[Brannen]

Fair enough, that makes sense. Can't say I've been in the position where a car I've bought has gone up in value / worth more once being sold, so not something I've ever really paid attention to. That video just made me think, oh so that's why people flip cars. A grey area / loophole being exploited by people with the opportunity to do so then.

My opinion before was just why would you sell something so quickly after buying. That video made me think if they could make a profit without much in the way of repercussions, it made sense.

[Mito Man]

Clicked the picture and saw it’s SSC, they’re a car dealer who seem to specialise in flipping

[Ascender]

Yip, there's a few being flipped now. That one at SSC would be about a 20K profit if they sell it for that. They've got some of the spec wrong, but it's an 85K-ish car, so nice, easy work if you can get it I guess.

Someone's been offered 8K for their build slot (1K deposit) and there's a couple of other early cars up for offers over MSRP. I think they're all from the first batch of cars which don't have any of the interior or exterior carbon bits or ceramic brakes. Those now seem to be trickling through to customers.

[MikeHunt]

I'd like to see some of these flippers taken to task by HMRC.

It's the same way in which people just assume that their main property is always allowable under the principle private residence CGT exemption, however, there have been cases where HMRC have pursued house flippers who buy a property, do it up immediately, move in for a short time during the works and then sell it straight on for a profit. HMRC won those cases. The argument is that the profit is the purpose of the trade rather than a consequence.

I disagree with you here, partly because I’ve sold 4 cars in the last 18 months, although none were bought with the intention of selling.

I do feel that the HMRC have a habit of going after small fish eg someone moving up the property ladder when there are much bigger fish avoiding tax, there are even cases when the goal posts have been moved retrospectively.

[Jobbo]

Ambiguous.

Cars are normally known as 'wasting assets' for Capital Gains Tax purposes, so if you bought a car (classic or otherwise) and it happened to go up in value in weeks, months or years then you wouldn't pay any tax on its disposal. This is because cars are expected to lose value normally, so you wouldn't want the world and his dog offsetting car depreciation against their other capital gains for tax purposes.

However, if you buy a car with the explicit purpose of reselling it at a higher price in a very short time frame, particularly without it fulfilling it's purpose as your _car_, then it can be argued that it's a trade and therefore subject to income tax, if operating as an individual. Do they think that car dealers don't pay taxes on their profits for buying and selling new cars?

I'd like to see some of these flippers taken to task by HMRC.

Conversely, when I first went self-employed in 2011 and managed to buy 4 or 5 cars that year I asked my accountant about being a trader so I could offset the depreciation losses against my income, and they said it wouldn't be permitted by HMRC. If I manage to buy a GT3 RS and sell if for £100k profit, that doesn't make me a trader - it makes me a fortunate private individual with a tax-free capital gain. If HMRC were to start trying to tax gains on used car values, they'd doubtless end up having to suffer tax write-offs of used car depreciation and overall I think the tax take would fall.

Most watch sales are not subject to CGT too.

[Jobbo]

It's the same way in which people just assume that their main property is always allowable under the principle private residence CGT exemption, however, there have been cases where HMRC have pursued house flippers who buy a property, do it up immediately, move in for a short time during the works and then sell it straight on for a profit. HMRC won those cases. The argument is that the profit is the purpose of the trade rather than a consequence.

Replying separately on the property CGT point since it's entirely different. If you live in the property and can evidence that (e.g. with bank statements, council tax bills etc) then you definitely qualify for principal private residence relief. HMRC would only win if they can show on the balance of probabilities that you didn't live there - e.g. if it wasn't actually habitable since it lacked a kitchen or bathrooms and you had another house which you actually stayed in overnight. If you do live in it, you are completely entitled to the exemption and it's simply a matter of evidencing that you live there.

[Simon]

It's the same way in which people just assume that their main property is always allowable under the principle private residence CGT exemption, however, there have been cases where HMRC have pursued house flippers who buy a property, do it up immediately, move in for a short time during the works and then sell it straight on for a profit. HMRC won those cases. The argument is that the profit is the purpose of the trade rather than a consequence.

Replying separately on the property CGT point since it's entirely different. If you live in the property and can evidence that (e.g. with bank statements, council tax bills etc) then you definitely qualify for principal private residence relief. HMRC would only win if they can show on the balance of probabilities that you didn't live there - e.g. if it wasn't actually habitable since it lacked a kitchen or bathrooms and you had another house which you actually stayed in overnight. If you do live in it, you are completely entitled to the exemption and it's simply a matter of evidencing that you live there.

Here is the case I'm referring to...

[Jobbo]

Replying separately on the property CGT point since it's entirely different. If you live in the property and can evidence that (e.g. with bank statements, council tax bills etc) then you definitely qualify for principal private residence relief. HMRC would only win if they can show on the balance of probabilities that you didn't live there - e.g. if it wasn't actually habitable since it lacked a kitchen or bathrooms and you had another house which you actually stayed in overnight. If you do live in it, you are completely entitled to the exemption and it's simply a matter of evidencing that you live there.

Here is the case I'm referring to...

That says the same thing - it's not about taxing flippers, it's about whether it actually qualifies as a principal private residence. If you stay somewhere for 3-4 weeks you don't reside there; you're not going to have substantial evidence of residence such as bank statements, council tax bills, being on the electoral roll etc.

[Carlos]

I'm amazed the chap wanted to go to court to argue that living in a property for the last 25 days of the 9.5 years he owned it made it his main residence lol

[Jobbo]

I'm amazed the chap wanted to go to court to argue that living in a property for the last 25 days of the 9.5 years he owned it made it his main residence lol

I think it's still possible they could qualify even for a short period of occupation before sale:
- If the flat is their only property; and
- If they haven't been living in it due to working abroad; and
- If they are buying another property to move into and they have to sell this to do that
The length of time alone is not the sole issue.

All about thinking in advance and setting it up right.

[tim]

JWW has his

[tim]

What the fuck is that dashboard?!

[Rich B]

Yeah, not a fan of the long curved screen.

[MikeHunt]

What the fuck is that dashboard?!

Im not a fan of the colour or the screen. My neighbour has the saloon and it seems like a step backwards compared to my car. I like the BMW number shortcuts and physical heater controls.