Ukraine

[V8Granite]

It’s nasty fuckers on each side.

You think the Ukrainians are blameless ? They are committing atrocities of their own.



This is a very interesting watch and says a lot.

We are hugely biased towards Ukraine, which is far from blameless and it’s all turned a bit “jumped the shark” where I don’t believe a thing I read now.

Dave!

[Swervin_Mervin]

"Far from blameless"? Did I miss the bit where they invaded another fvcking country?

[IanF]

Dave! How exactly do you think we’d respond if someone invaded us??

[RobYob]

You think the Ukrainians are blameless ? They are committing atrocities of their own.

So compared with the mountain of independant evidence of countless Russian crimes you reference an anecdote on Youtube.

It’s all turned a bit “jumped the shark” where I don’t believe a thing I read now.

Then the concerted campaign of Russian disinformation has been highly successful on you.

There has not been a comparable war of plain Good Vs Evil in eighty years. If Ukraine's halo righteous defence of homeland is tarnished by some past or present deeds than that is as nothing compared to the evil invasion by Putin and his supporters.

[Rich B]

Yeah, for me it's not about who's the baddie here - that's pretty plain. It's more about understanding the significance of each event when most seem to be claimed/denied by both sides.

[V8Granite]

You think the Ukrainians are blameless ? They are committing atrocities of their own.

So compared with the mountain of independant evidence of countless Russian crimes you reference an anecdote on Youtube.

It’s all turned a bit “jumped the shark” where I don’t believe a thing I read now.

Then the concerted campaign of Russian disinformation has been highly successful on you.

There has not been a comparable war of plain Good Vs Evil in eighty years. If Ukraine's halo righteous defence of homeland is tarnished by some past or present deeds than that is as nothing compared to the evil invasion by Putin and his supporters.

I think we need to realise that the west hills sent some angel and Russia is only bad. We equally do shitty stuff and dis-information goes both ways. I don’t watch any Russian media at all.

Dave!

[V8Granite]

Dave! How exactly do you think we’d respond if someone invaded us??

I would fully expect those fighting to do so within the realms of the Geneva convention.

It’s like saying every German in WW2 was an evil Nazi and every allied soldier a person of purity.

What I don’t see now is a good guy and bad guy. Just because one person acts as in one way doesn’t mean the other must do aswell.

Watch the video, it’s very interesting and I would say our media is just as bad as Russias in it’s own way.

Dave!

[Swervin_Mervin]

Dave! How exactly do you think we’d respond if someone invaded us??

I would fully expect those fighting to do so within the realms of the Geneva convention.

As would we all. But would you still think that if they'd been lobbing shells at your country's schools and hospitals, and raping women? Or do you think something might change?

[Swervin_Mervin]

Yeah, for me it's not about who's the baddie here - that's pretty plain. It's more about understanding the significance of each event when most seem to be claimed/denied by both sides.

I tend to only really pay attention to Dr Mike Martin's thoughts, which are more about the strategic aspects of the war and manoeuvres, and David Patrikarakos (sp?) who's a journalist.

[V8Granite]

Dave! How exactly do you think we’d respond if someone invaded us??

I would fully expect those fighting to do so within the realms of the Geneva convention.

As would we all. But would you still think that if they'd been lobbing shells at your country's schools and hospitals, and raping women? Or do you think something might change?

I see anyone who doesn’t do that as a sick individual.

I know a lot of soldiers whose saving grace was that they kept the standards they believed in despite what they saw. Both in NI and the Middle East.

Condoning any behaviour like that because “well they did it first” is disgusting.

Dave!

[ZedLeg]

I’d rather support the country fighting imperialist expansion than wait til the war’s on our doorstep tbh.

I don’t think you’ll find many people who would agree that the british army were exemplary in NI and the middle east Dave!

[V8Granite]

I’d rather support the country fighting imperialist expansion than wait til the war’s on our doorstep tbh.

I don’t think you’ll find many people who would agree that the british army were exemplary in NI and the middle east Dave!

Russia bad, Ukraine good, it is making light of the people getting killed and I find that hard to see with so little compassion.

Especially now conscripts are going to the front from Russia and it’s seen as funny they are so ill-equipped ? I found it amusing too but we forget they are people too put into a war not of their making. Oh haha Bob the baker is off to die.

It’s not good against evil, it’s a horrific situation brought about by idiots.

Dave!

[ZedLeg]

I never said good or bad. I’m well aware of the dodgy aspects of Ukraine, the fact is that Russia is the aggressor though. Europe either helps with equipment etc now or we’ll be fighting next year. Putin is testing how far he can push his luck, where do you think we should let him get to?

As far as the conscription goes, the best hope is that the population revolt. He’s possibly already had to take drastic action to fend off a coup. They need to keep that pressure on him.

[V8Granite]

I think it should never have started.

Hasn’t the west been slowly pushing east despite agreeing with Russia that it wouldn’t push further east? That was the early 90s.

Do you think the west is blameless over this ?

Is Russia known for its reasonable and calculated responses ?

It all feels like poking the bear with a stick and then being surprised when it bites you.

This all feels like Europe doing americas dirty work. Which should never have got this far.

Dave!

[V8Granite]

I never said good or bad. I’m well aware of the dodgy aspects of Ukraine, the fact is that Russia is the aggressor though. Europe either helps with equipment etc now or we’ll be fighting next year. Putin is testing how far he can push his luck, where do you think we should let him get to?

As far as the conscription goes, the best hope is that the population revolt. He’s possibly already had to take drastic action to fend off a coup. They need to keep that pressure on him.

Completely agree on conscription, hopefully it steers the public the right way but what an awful way for it to happen.

Dave!

[RobYob]

I think we need to realise that the west hills sent some angel and Russia is only bad. We equally do shitty stuff and dis-information goes both ways. I don’t watch any Russian media at all.

Dave!

I don't doubt there are some nasty people fighting on the side of Ukraine and hopefully they will face a court at some point. But to claim any kind of equivalance with the almost countless horrific acts from an entirely unjustifed invasion by Russia is frankly, baffling.

Most obviously have Russia claimed mass civilian casualties from indescriminate missile attacks on cities? FFS Russia are attacking the civilians of cities they claim to have "liberated".

[RobYob]

I think it should never have started.

Hasn’t the west been slowly pushing east despite agreeing with Russia that it wouldn’t push further east? That was the early 90s.

Do you think the west is blameless over this ?

Is Russia known for its reasonable and calculated responses ?

It all feels like poking the bear with a stick and then being surprised when it bites you.

This all feels like Europe doing americas dirty work. Which should never have got this far.

Dave!

WTAF? That's some from some parallel reality. The West has NOT been pushing east, the former eastern block has been CHOOSING to trade and ally with the West.

The only blame "The West" should take is not providing Ukraine with enough support so its borders were never compromised in the first place.

If you consider allowing countries self determination "poking the bear" then it follows you'd be entirely fine with Putin marching halfway across Germany?

Explain just how Europe is doing the US' dirty work? Other than a lot of innocent Ukrainians dieing for want of a UN resolution to kick Russia back behind its own borders.

[ZedLeg]

I think it should never have started.

I’m about as anti war a person as you can get but even I think this is silly.

Of course it would be better if wars didn’t happen but it is happening. It’s horrible and stupid but at this point we either ignore it and hope it goes away or help the people who are defending themselves.

[V8Granite]

Just to clarify, I’m an not pro Russia at all, I just find it very naive to think this is completely 1 sided and Putin woke up one day and thought “fuck it, let’s go West and see what happens”

Didn’t NATO say no more advancement to the east at the breakdown of the Soviet Union? Russia was and is seen as a threat so they kept growing. Would this have all kicked off if NATO kept to their word ? Would Russia have done what it’s doing now but 10 years earlier, who knows.

You mention a lot of innocent Ukrainians, are there no innocent Russians too ?

Dave!

[V8Granite]

I think it should never have started.

I’m about as anti war a person as you can get but even I think this is silly.

Of course it would be better if wars didn’t happen but it is happening. It’s horrible and stupid but at this point we either ignore it and hope it goes away or help the people who are defending themselves.

No-one says to ignore it but I can’t see how this snuck up on everyone with nothing possible to be done to prevent it.

I’ll leave it there as I’ll come across as a Putin sympathiser but that’s not the intention, I don’t want to fall out of a window after all

Dave!