Coronavirus

[Gwaredd]

Not really. Without the lockdowns and tiers etc there would be have been more hospital admissions and more dead. Plus there have been two vaccines developed in that time. What would have been a perfect outcome of the last year for you?

Well, obviously I'm aware of the time used to develop a vaccine hasn't been wasted, that's just stupid. I'm referring to the amount of infections spreading at the moment. We've learnt nothing. We've been treading water for a year now. Social distancing is terrible, no-one uses the hand sanitisers provided in every shop doorway, the test and trace app is pretty much redundant.

I also feel our government has been reactive rather than pro active. We see what's working in other countries, sit on it for a few weeks and then maybe implement it in a lacklustre manner. Masks should be mandatory everywhere for everybody. No exceptions.

The worst thing for me though is people's sense of entitlement. The way people demand they go to the pub, or gym, or fucking Starbucks. It's just not necessary. I can do both, but don't as I can see that's a great way to spread this shit. These are my own feelings obviously, and its what I've observed in and around my area, which has consistently had very low rates and is still in tier 2, so God only knows how others are behaving in the areas that are in higher tiers. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

Well, you did ask

[duncs500]

You lot must live in some shitty areas, I see nothing but compliance wherever I go from businesses and individuals.

[V8Granite]

Peterborough is an embarrassment.

We just don’t go in there anymore as people are just not following the rules at all.

Dave!

[Broccers]

Got a phone call on Xmas eve. Corona numbers had doubled and could I come and work 26th to 28th as they are planning to open a contingency ICU ward.

So I came in. 19 covid cases in intensive care, mostly because we act as the surge centre for the region, against a total capacity of 52 ICU beds. The extra ward never materialised however, as there are barely enough nurses to staff our 52, let alone the planned additional 12-22 beds in a repurposed ward.

This is the problem: in the first wave, we had shut down elective surgery, moved things off site, etc etc. This created nursing staff from theatres, other wards etc who while they weren’t ICU nurses could at least be supervised by our guys. But all other activity is carrying on right now so those people are not available, let alone fully qualified and trained ICU nurses.

And of course we didn’t have enough nurses or doctors in this country to begin with. The loss of the bursaries to fund people through nursing training play a large role in that.

Has anyone looked into effectively killing patients by inducing coma and putting them on a ventilator?

[Rich B]

Got a phone call on Xmas eve. Corona numbers had doubled and could I come and work 26th to 28th as they are planning to open a contingency ICU ward.

So I came in. 19 covid cases in intensive care, mostly because we act as the surge centre for the region, against a total capacity of 52 ICU beds. The extra ward never materialised however, as there are barely enough nurses to staff our 52, let alone the planned additional 12-22 beds in a repurposed ward.

This is the problem: in the first wave, we had shut down elective surgery, moved things off site, etc etc. This created nursing staff from theatres, other wards etc who while they weren’t ICU nurses could at least be supervised by our guys. But all other activity is carrying on right now so those people are not available, let alone fully qualified and trained ICU nurses.

And of course we didn’t have enough nurses or doctors in this country to begin with. The loss of the bursaries to fund people through nursing training play a large role in that.

Has anyone looked into effectively killing patients by inducing coma and putting them on a ventilator?

it's an interesting suggestion Broccers, of course no idea is a daft idea, but keep thinking mate..

[Ascender]

Got a phone call on Xmas eve. Corona numbers had doubled and could I come and work 26th to 28th as they are planning to open a contingency ICU ward.

So I came in. 19 covid cases in intensive care, mostly because we act as the surge centre for the region, against a total capacity of 52 ICU beds. The extra ward never materialised however, as there are barely enough nurses to staff our 52, let alone the planned additional 12-22 beds in a repurposed ward.

This is the problem: in the first wave, we had shut down elective surgery, moved things off site, etc etc. This created nursing staff from theatres, other wards etc who while they weren’t ICU nurses could at least be supervised by our guys. But all other activity is carrying on right now so those people are not available, let alone fully qualified and trained ICU nurses.

And of course we didn’t have enough nurses or doctors in this country to begin with. The loss of the bursaries to fund people through nursing training play a large role in that.

That sounds very grim. I’ve heard similar from friends and you can see it on Twitter too, so it makes me pretty incredulous to see people rubbishing it on social media.

I’m not a fan of the SNP, but one thing they have done is put bursaries in place for nurse training up here. Its really helped with Mrs Mike deciding to do it at this time. I’m surprised to hear its not something thats UK-wide.

[Broccers]

Got a phone call on Xmas eve. Corona numbers had doubled and could I come and work 26th to 28th as they are planning to open a contingency ICU ward.

So I came in. 19 covid cases in intensive care, mostly because we act as the surge centre for the region, against a total capacity of 52 ICU beds. The extra ward never materialised however, as there are barely enough nurses to staff our 52, let alone the planned additional 12-22 beds in a repurposed ward.

This is the problem: in the first wave, we had shut down elective surgery, moved things off site, etc etc. This created nursing staff from theatres, other wards etc who while they weren’t ICU nurses could at least be supervised by our guys. But all other activity is carrying on right now so those people are not available, let alone fully qualified and trained ICU nurses.

And of course we didn’t have enough nurses or doctors in this country to begin with. The loss of the bursaries to fund people through nursing training play a large role in that.

Has anyone looked into effectively killing patients by inducing coma and putting them on a ventilator?

it's an interesting suggestion Broccers, of course no idea is a daft idea, but keep thinking mate..

So RichB you think ventilators were a good idea.

[Rich B]

Has anyone looked into effectively killing patients by inducing coma and putting them on a ventilator?

it's an interesting suggestion Broccers, of course no idea is a daft idea, but keep thinking mate..

So RichB you think ventilators were a good idea.

why are you asking me - we have an actual medical professional on this thread.. Mr Newt?

[Broccers]

it's an interesting suggestion Broccers, of course no idea is a daft idea, but keep thinking mate..

So RichB you think ventilators were a good idea.

why are you asking me - we have an actual medical professional on this thread.. Mr Newt?

Because you are the oracle on every subject, lad, mate, fella

Joking aside it's a bit strange the nhs went quiet on the first port of action treating their customers.

[integrale_evo]

They give you normal oxygen through a mask first, if that doesn’t work they use a positive pressure system, if that doesn’t work they stick you on a ventilator which is by all accounts pretty unpleasant and knock you out so your body doesn’t fight it.

Are you suggesting if the positive pressure oxygen doesn’t work we just say there’s nothing we can do and let people die without bothering to try the next step?

[Broccers]

They give you normal oxygen through a mask first, if that doesn’t work they use a positive pressure system, if that doesn’t work they stick you on a ventilator which is by all accounts pretty unpleasant and knock you out so your body doesn’t fight it.

Are you suggesting if the positive pressure oxygen doesn’t work we just say there’s nothing we can do and let people die without bothering to try the next step?

I'm putting out there going to hospital will end up killing you. You're 20 percent likely to catch the virus in there and when they treat you they will kill you in the process.

[V8Granite]

Brockets is in fact correct.

Isn’t it suspicious that hospitals create a lot more dead people than say a Greggs yet Greggs is vilified for salt ridden fatty foods

Dave!

[Sundayjumper]

And Brocko only gets a hangover after he's been to sleep, never while drinking. It's not the drink causing the hangovers it's the sleep !!

[Marv]

Take off and nuke all hospitals from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

[integrale_evo]

Ventilators are nasty, it’s a last resort treatment. I think the statistics are about 50/50 live / die if you have to go onto one. It’s not the ventilator killing you it’s the fact that the virus has taken hold so badly that you were in a bad way before getting put onto one.

My mrs went to hospital and had 5 days of oxygen treatment before she was able to breather normal air on her own and continue recovery at home. I’m glad she went in, it made her better and didn’t kill her.

[Rich B]

Brockets is in fact correct.

Isn’t it suspicious that hospitals create a lot more dead people than say a Greggs yet Greggs is vilified for salt ridden fatty foods

Dave!

And as he says, if you go to hospital with covid, there's a 20% chance you'll catch covid at the hospital.

It's unforgivable.

[Explosive Newt]

Has anyone looked into effectively killing patients by inducing coma and putting them on a ventilator?

Gosh, there is a lot to unpack here.

Yes, being on a ventilator is terrible for you. All the muscles in your body atrophy from lying in the bed and when you are 'fully' ventilated (i.e. paralysed and the ventilator doing all the breathing for you), then the breathing muscles atrophy too. For a week of being fully ventilated, you are looking at 2 or more to wean you back off the ventilator after the disease has passed, just re-training the muscles. If you are too frail to begin with, that weaning process will simply not be possible. And of course, you are at risk of ventilator acquired pneumonias, DVTs and all the other mischief that goes along with being critically unwell picking you off.

That's why you should only go on a ventilator if you are going to benefit from it - i.e. you are sick enough that you will die without it but not so frail that it will kill you. Working this out is where experience comes in but we have various scoring systems backed up by research that can guide us. Ventilation definitely saves lives, when used on the right person at the right time. I know a lot of people I ventilated in the first wave made it and are alive and kicking today (our unit actually had one of the best survival rates at round about 75% when we checked in November).

Unfortunately, a chunk of my job is telling people that their loved one is not going to benefit from being ventilated and we're not going to do it. Sorry: I know "he's always been a fighter" - but he's 85, obese, he's smoked all his life and he doesn't have the lungs to make it through. It's not willpower, it's not penny-pinching, it's just putting him on the vent will mean he spends 3 days in a coma being ventilated and dying in an uncontrolled fashion rather than dying today with analgesia and surrounded by family.

I would definitely agree that people catch covid in hospitals and it's one reason why why need to be vaccinating hospital staff as soon as we possibly can as in general it's the people looking after you who are picking up the 'rona asymptomatically and passing it on as they move from patient to patient. We're better at isolating patients from each other than we used to be.

[ZedLeg]

I think broccers thought you could just put people in a coma and stick them in a cupboard until you have time to deal with them .

[Explosive Newt]

I think broccers thought you could just put people in a coma and stick them in a cupboard until you have time to deal with them .

Well he can stay in there with them.

[Explosive Newt]

it's an interesting suggestion Broccers, of course no idea is a daft idea, but keep thinking mate..

So RichB you think ventilators were a good idea.

why are you asking me - we have an actual medical professional on this thread.. Mr Newt?

Ventilators are a good idea for two reasons:
1. They allow you to live in various situations where your body would not otherwise cope (e.g. during severe illness or during an operation)
2. If they didn't exist then I wouldn't have been able to work over the summer and I would have to have sold the Boxster