Rugby scrum caps

[mik]

Always insisted both my sprogs wore head guards when they played.... just seemed blindingly obvious.

Always amazed how few players you see using them at pro levels today.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/ ... are_btn_tw

[V8Granite]

I played when I was younger for a bit. I’m of the opinion that any touch Rugby shouldn’t be played till they are in their mid teens.

Excitable male, proving a point, injuries happen.

Especially in the last 20 years rugby players, especially Union, have become true athletes compared to a field of bruisers before. It is quite surprising the wearing of a cap hasn’t been insisted upon.

Yet with things like MMA Rugby seems quite relaxed.

Dave!

[Carlos]

I have mixed views on this subject. Modern pro rugby is very different game to club rugby where there is a much greater emphasis on open play, passing and avoiding contact. The defensive structure in pro rugby is so difficult to breach that human battering rams in attack and defence are now employed with the breakdown area seen as a defensive opportunity to win quick ball to break away with or a penalty, this where the bulk of the head/neck injuries occur.

I played a fair bit of rugby (school, club and county) until 20 and the only time i got knocked out was a stray boot in training which could have happened in Netball.

The science tells us that scrumcaps offer little (if any) protection against concussion/impact type injuries and may increase risk to younger players where they believe it offers a false sense of security. Yet my son has worn one since he was 6 yrs old

I love rugby and its ability to accommodate people of all shapes and physical abilities, its impact on communities in Wales is massive.

Hopefully some rule changes around the breakdown can be brought in to make it safer.

[GG.]

I used them for a while as a teenager but found them annoying to wear and made you overheat. Basically felt like wearing a beanie hat on your head the whole time.

The early onset dementia cases are very concerning though. Shame to hear Steve Thompson can't even remember 2003 - tragic really. As Carlos says, I expect it is a lot more of a problem with pro rugby than in the amateur game.

[Mito Man]

Haven't looked at the science but was going to ask how much scrum caps can help as they are very thin. Better than nothing I guess.

[duncs500]

Agree with @Carlos re the pro game now. They way they defend and smash people back from the gain line is crazy, and nothing like how we played or were taught to tackle when I was a youth. I'm sure the clubs do try to emulate what they see the pro teams doing though.

I never even tried on a scrum cap when I played, so I don't know how much of a pain it is or how much protection it provides.

[DaveE]

may increase risk to younger players where they believe it offers a false sense of security

Reminded me of a friend who I used to go boarding with.

He got a full-face helmet and turned into a complete lunatic.

Yes mate, your head is protected now, but the rest of you is soft and squishy still...

[Rich B]

They refer to 15 commandments but are pretty sketchy on the detail. What are they?

[ZedLeg]

CTE can really mess you up. Any protection you can get from concussions is a good idea imo.

There are a couple of good documentaries about people who were affected by it. The Mind of Aaron Hernandez and the Dark side of the ring episodes about Chris Benoit.

[unzippy]

If you look at NFL, they play in a suit of armour compared to rugby players and they are facing similar issues.

https://www.center4research.org/footbal ... need-know/

Will a jumped up beany hat do any good?

[dinny_g]

I always thought Scrum Caps were only to protect your ears from Cauliflower'ing and for some basic Head protection from stud cuts in the breakdown etc as players arrive and place their feet (Not much rucking these days) ??

The contact / age discussion is interesting - I played a bit at underage and the thought was the earlier you start teaching kids how to tackle, getting your head out for the way, falling correctly, protecting your wrists, rolling away and getting back up, the safer it is.

Introducing all of that to 13 or 14 year old, hormonally charged kids was always seen as dangerous. I'm not involved in Rugby at all but
that seems to still be the logic, according to my mate who trained the same batch of kids from U7 to, now, U15.

The parallel concussion problem in the NFL does suggest that extra protection = extra bravery...

[Rich B]

No mention of scrum caps in that article - but common sense would say they would help a bit. But then common sense would also tell you that repeated huge hits and multiple concussions over many years would probably not be good for your brain long term.

I'd definitely be interested to read what their recommendations are (presumably these 15 commandments).

[mik]

[ZedLeg]

I always thought Scrum Caps were only to protect your ears from Cauliflower'ing and for some basic Head protection from stud cuts in the breakdown etc as players arrive and place their feet (Not much rucking these days) ??

The contact / age discussion is interesting - I played a bit at underage and the thought was the earlier you start teaching kids how to tackle, getting your head out for the way, falling correctly, protecting your wrists, rolling away and getting back up, the safer it is.

Introducing all of that to 13 or 14 year old, hormonally charged kids was always seen as dangerous. I'm not involved in Rugby at all but
that seems to still be the logic, according to my mate who trained the same batch of kids from U7 to, now, U15.

The parallel concussion problem in the NFL does suggest that extra protection = extra bravery...

It's not so much extra bravery in NFL. The rules around tackling are less strict, spear tackles etc. Also the weight difference between defensive and offensive players can be as much as 6 or 7 stone. The game is designed to be much harder hitting.

I've not followed rugby much for the last few years but I wonder if there is the same disparity in size between offensive and defensive players since it went pro in the 90s. I'd guess not so much as in American Football you basically have separate teams for Defense and Offence, leading to players training for much more specialised roles. You have sprinters facing up against a brick wall.

[V8Granite]

The Fridge came to Bushfield school as they were trying to do an American football league in the U.K.



I remember when he opened his arms up he seemed about 10 foot wide.

A completely different game.

Really guy is a more athletic game but some of the tackles in NFL seem brutal.

Dave!

[ZedLeg]

I wouldn’t say rugby is more athletic. A wide receiver will run the 100 metres in about 10-11 seconds and quarterbacks can throw the ball 60 or 70 yards with accuracy.

The defensive line’s job is to steam roll the offensive line to try and flatten the qb before he can throw, so it’s all about weight and power.

There’s definitely more endurance involved in rugby.

[dinny_g]

But then common sense would also tell you that repeated huge hits and multiple concussions over many years would probably not be good for your brain long term.

I went to College with a guy who had a long Pro Career and Ireland International

I bumped into him a few years ago and I noticed the same sort of effect I’ve seen in other ex players on the TV or online. Gordon Darcy is an example. When speaking, he sometimes needs to repeat a bit of a sentence to be able to complete the sentence. It’s subtle but when you notice it, it becomes really noticeable.

Not quite a speech disorder but sometimes seems like he's reaching for his next word.

[Explosive Newt]

There was a BMJ publication looking at scrum caps and found they made zero difference to concussions https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/35/3/167 (small numbers I guess but still) although obviously the long term effects on cognition/memory are a bit trickier.

The 15 commandments are
1. World Rugby to accept that playing professional rugby can lead to CTE and other neurodegenerative diseases.
2. Regulated training to be introduced limiting contact to a certain number of sessions a year.
3. Limit the number of substitutes per game
4. All players’ unions to have greater independence
5. Zero hour contracts to be abolished World Rugby
6. Competent baseline testing each pre-season
7. Adoption of better sideline testing.
8. Concussions spotters to have authority to remove players showing visible symptoms
9. Career-long central database chronicling injury history
10. Remove rugby union’s reliance on various arch-conservative organisations, such as the International Consensus Group on Concussion in Sport (CISG) and the International Concussion & Head Injury Research Foundation (ICHIRF), and select sports science departments
11. Urgent research to be carried out on front row forwards
12. Greater education on the issue of concussion
13. For every three concussions suffered by a player, he or she will receive a full set of medical tests
14. Remove reliance on the MRI scan to prove brain trauma
15. Better aftercare

Much of this seems like looking at the stable door after the horse has bolted to me, aside from the ones about reducing the amount of contact training time. As you all say, it's down to the way the pro game is played and without more serious body armour, the head getting knocked around seems inevitable.

If you've ever tried to get someone to give up smoking, asking someone to stop something that they enjoy but may not suffer ill effects from for 15 or 20 years is not the way our feeble human brains are wired...

[V8Granite]

The biggest problem is probably how one of them could lose an eye and they’d Chuck some tape over it and carry on

Dave!

[Swervin_Mervin]

Alix Popham was on BBC Breakfast today and of all the issues that he felt needed to be addressed, the one he kept coming back to was the training. I think Steve Thompson said the same - that the number of knocks to the head received during training was very high, and that you were expected to just get back up and carry on as soon as you came to.

So it seems that even just introducing simple measures such as that could make a marked difference. The issue with all of this is that any changes need to happen on a global basis - via the WRU. It would be no good one country trying to tackle the problem if, at international level, that is then exploited by other nations to secure success in competition.