OV9

dinny_g wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:27 am Would anyone here who is Jewish like to offer a direct, first hand view ??

Yes. I've lived in this country since birth (1966) and I also visit Israel in most years for work or as a tourist. In my experience the level of concern about Corbyn within the UK Jewish community is far, far greater than in relation to any previous party leader, and in my view this is for good reason.

There are undoubtedly serious issues in relation to how the Israeli government has treated Palestinians. I think most UK Jews would acknowledge this, as would many Israelis. However, the way in which Israel is singled out for criticism is very hard to explain (other than by reference to anti-Semitism) given that many of these critics, and the organisations they support, don't just object to the policies/activities of the Israeli government but also deny Israel's right to exist.

More fundamentally, however, is the fact that many of the comments by Labour politicians and candidates which are regarded as anti-Semitic have nothing to do with Israel and much more to do with longstanding and deep-seated 'worldwide Jewish conspiracy' theories. These views exist on both sides of the spectrum spectrum. One reason the UK Jewish community is concerned about Corbyn, however, is that he repeatedly and explicitly insists on equating anti-Semitism with 'all forms of racism'. I agree that any form of racism is unacceptable, but the nature of anti-Semitism is fundamentally different - it's about hatred, not discrimination. Corbyn's unwillingness or inability to understand this is why the Labour Party has been so slow to deal with the issue, which in turn is why the Jewish community has an unprecedented level of concern about him.

Jonathan

Thanks Jonathan

dinny_g wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:27 am Would anyone here who is Jewish like to offer a direct, first hand view ??

I don't think a Corbyn government will make it less safe to be Jewish in the UK, it won't make it safer either. I grew up behind tall fences, police patrols and cameras, I'm always aware and see threats (often where none exist), a school friend standing guard outside the Synagogue was killed almost three years ago by a terrorist, and over the last week I've seen posts about several antisemitic hate crimes at home in Denmark. The right is on the rise and emboldened by Trump, Brexit, Bolsonaro, orban and more they're crawling out of their holes in the ground, spreading lies, fear and hatred.

JC has a credibility problem and have, as I said previously, handled the issues very poorly.

NotoriousREV wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:37 am Very well said.

I'm afraid anyone denying anti-semitism in Labour are either ignorant or in denial (on the assumption they're not actually anti-Semitic themselves).

Those in denial are Egyptian.

RobYob wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:46 pm

NotoriousREV wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:37 am Very well said.

I'm afraid anyone denying anti-semitism in Labour are either ignorant or in denial (on the assumption they're not actually anti-Semitic themselves).

Those in denial are Egyptian.

I see what you did there.

I suggest that the labour party know full well that anti-Semitism is a widespread problem throughout their number. At the same time they are also very conscious of the many UK labour voters that are entirely comfortable with that state of affairs. I suspect that they also understand that many more UK voters have no real concept of what anti-Semitism is so don't overly care about it.

NotoriousREV wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:14 am

unzippy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:36 am The Times is owned by Rupert Murdoch's News International. They slag off the Labour party for fun.

I’m not sure what you’re trying to achieve with your angry denial.

Who's angry and who's denying what?

unzippy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:59 pm

NotoriousREV wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:14 am

unzippy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:36 am The Times is owned by Rupert Murdoch's News International. They slag off the Labour party for fun.

I’m not sure what you’re trying to achieve with your angry denial.

Who's angry and who's denying what?

So you didn’t strongly imply that The Times publishing the story about The Jewish Chronicle headline was just Rupert Murdoch slagging off Labour, and therefore anti-semitism in the Labour Party doesn’t exist? Because it looks like you did. Almost exactly like it, in fact.

NotoriousREV wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:48 am

unzippy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:59 pm

NotoriousREV wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:14 am



I’m not sure what you’re trying to achieve with your angry denial.

Who's angry and who's denying what?

So you didn’t strongly imply that The Times publishing the story about The Jewish Chronicle headline was just Rupert Murdoch slagging off Labour, and therefore anti-semitism in the Labour Party doesn’t exist? Because it looks like you did. Almost exactly like it, in fact.

I made two statements. Who owns The Times and what what their political bias is.

How you choose to interpret that is completely up to you

OK, and I’ve interpreted it as you denying anti-semitism exists in the Labour Party. Your lame response confirms it, as far as I’m concerned; you simply can’t bring yourself to deny it, instead relying on the “if that’s what you want to think”.