OV9

Beany wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:18 am

Also, the point is to reduce high concentrations of pollution - IE central leeds is a shithole for air quality. Up here in Pudsey, it's generally fine because traffic levels are lower on the whole.

Just install some wind turbines in reverse and blow all the pollution out into the countryside where there's less people to die from it. Problem solved

integrale_evo wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:28 pm

Beany wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:18 am

Also, the point is to reduce high concentrations of pollution - IE central leeds is a shithole for air quality. Up here in Pudsey, it's generally fine because traffic levels are lower on the whole.

Just install some wind turbines in reverse and blow all the pollution out into the countryside where there's less people to die from it. Problem solved

Aka do a Bristol.

Bristol stoke my children’s future!!

Dave!

The people who still complain that electric cars aren’t very green because they use fossil fuels to charge up are missing the point. Even using an electric car that is fully charged with fossil fuels makes it greener than a petrol car, even accounting for the battery production it’s significantly less polluting.
The average lifespan of a car in the UK is 14 years, and as your car ages the electrical renewable infrastructure will continue to get upgraded, in effect further dropping emissions.

ZedLeg wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:48 am Electric cars use fossil fuels to charge isn’t the incredibly clever gotcha people think it is.

Moar infos rqd (in the spirit of others posting links etc).

Mito Man wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:56 pm The people who still complain that electric cars aren’t very green because they use fossil fuels to charge up are missing the point. Even using an electric car that is fully charged with fossil fuels makes it greener than a petrol car, even accounting for the battery production it’s significantly less polluting.
The average lifespan of a car in the UK is 14 years, and as your car ages the electrical renewable infrastructure will continue to get upgraded, in effect further dropping emissions.

See above.

No angle from me, interested to learn

Mito Man wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:37 pm https://www.theguardian.com/football/n ... ctric-cars

Ta

Y'know that article contradicts your latter point about vehicle production right? EVs are highly questionable in that regard, and that's before you start considering the environmental aspects beyond just CO2

It doesn’t contradict me as I’m also talking about the car from the perspective of its whole lifespan:

“A report by the Ricardo consultancy estimated that production of an average petrol car will involve emissions amounting to the equivalent of 5.6 tonnes of CO2, while for an average electric car, the figure is 8.8tonnes. Of that, nearly half is incurred in producing the battery. Despite this, the same report estimated that over its whole lifecycle, the electric car would still be responsible for 80% of the emissions of the petrol car.”

Here’s a graphic from a MIT study

The Tesla P100D is basically the least green EV you can buy, it has a 100kw battery, is massive and excessively powerful but long term it’s better than a BMW 750. Yes a wheezy eco car like the Mirage will have a smaller footprint, but it won’t have 700+ bhp, or be in the same league in any aspect. I’m sure something more comparable like a Nissan Leaf would smoke it’s lifecycle emissions though.

Now compare the P100D to a ICE equivalent - say a Porsche Panamera Turbo or E63 and it would do a hell of a lot better. Take into account a lifetimes worth of engine/gearbox/diff oil changes and better still. Then there’s there’s the significantly lower amount of brake dust they release. Consider routine service items such as an oil filter, spark plugs and air filter, then multiply that by the entire ICE car population and see how much crap that adds up to.

Electric cars are greener than anything else we have right now.

A couple of things;
the MIT study End of life emissions excludes the battery; it may well be too early to figure, but it's a bit of a biggie.
I'm curious about other production emissions (though I'm sure they'll be in another report somewhere and these just concentrated on co2).
Are electric cars at the moment able to retain the UK average 14yr lifespan?
Any idea what's likely to happen; longer lifetime batteries, or cheaper batteries to make renewing them a viable option?
How will the govt. increasingly penalise/tax us when recharging with renewables?
How long until petrol cars start getting squeezed?


My name's not Bob, and my derv Passat isn't 20yrs old.



It's 17.

My understanding that Tesla’s figures showed very little in the way of battery degradation ? In the single digits on cars with hundred of thousands of miles on.

Dave!

What power mix does that MIT study assume for the Tesla ?
What difference would being on a zero emission elec supply make?
Was the Tesla factory 100% powered by zero emission elec supply which I believe is the case now!

Why does that chart exclude the batteries from end of life emissions?

Presumably (and this is my educated presumption) they don’t know what happens to the batteries - they may be reused in power storage or recycled and thus can’t derive an exact co2 figure.

[mention]Mr Pish[/mention] its based on the average US mix.

None of those figures are exact, they’ve all got a bunch of assumptions behind them. Leaving the batteries out completely instead of putting in *something* smacks of a obvious fudge to make sure the Tesla wins...

Surely the end of life for the batteries is the one of the main things we’re actually interested in when comparing ice and ev.

Either include all the figures or fuck off imo.

Especially as there have been a lot of reports of other, non-tesla ev being at 50% battery life after 3-4 years leaving the owners stuck with an almost unuseable range.

Battery powered EVs are just a stopgap, Hydrogen will be the longer term solution. The costs of renewable energy are falling rapidly, electrolysis is getting more efficient and fuel cells are getting cheaper. It just needs a little time for everything to fall into place. Hydrogen will become the energy storage medium that sits in between solar and wind power and the grid and answers the “what happens when it’s not sunny/windy enough?”

All of that Rev...