OV9

Swervin_Mervin wrote: ↑Thu Jul 14, 2022 3:05 pm

Jobbo wrote: ↑Thu Jul 14, 2022 1:13 pm I don't think Brexit should be that relevant to the vote when we have already left - I take it the Brexiteers are the ones still fighting for it, even though it's happened?

Of course it still matters. There's the small matter of the NIP for a start and whether it gets left, tweaked or binned etc. Then there's future relations with the EU and whether one is less cooperative or more. And lastly there's whether the hopeful has the basic drive to maximise opportunities that Brexit has enabled or is satisfied to leave things largely as they are.

Now we can all argue over some of those points along the age old lines of the Brexit debate either way, but they're still factors in MPs and Party members choosing who they might want as next PM.

The NIP is what it is, it's quite obvious that the last government's plans for it are utterly ridiculous.

Everything you mention is basically foreign policy and trade. They existed before Brexit, and they will always be fundamental. To my mind, anyone mentioning Brexit in the context of those two headings doesn't really have a clue how we got to where we are or any idea about the future.

I see Braverman is out now. Thank god for that, though looking at who is left, I am not thankful for long

Jobbo wrote: ↑Thu Jul 14, 2022 3:14 pm

Swervin_Mervin wrote: ↑Thu Jul 14, 2022 3:05 pm

Jobbo wrote: ↑Thu Jul 14, 2022 1:13 pm I don't think Brexit should be that relevant to the vote when we have already left - I take it the Brexiteers are the ones still fighting for it, even though it's happened?

Of course it still matters. There's the small matter of the NIP for a start and whether it gets left, tweaked or binned etc. Then there's future relations with the EU and whether one is less cooperative or more. And lastly there's whether the hopeful has the basic drive to maximise opportunities that Brexit has enabled or is satisfied to leave things largely as they are.

Now we can all argue over some of those points along the age old lines of the Brexit debate either way, but they're still factors in MPs and Party members choosing who they might want as next PM.

The NIP is what it is, it's quite obvious that the last government's plans for it are utterly ridiculous.

Everything you mention is basically foreign policy and trade. They existed before Brexit, and they will always be fundamental. To my mind, anyone mentioning Brexit in the context of those two headings doesn't really have a clue how we got to where we are or any idea about the future.

But how the issue of the NIP is dealt with going forward is probably going to be steered to a degree by the lean of the Gov't, be that pro-Brexit or Remain, or pro/anti-EU to be more precise. I don't see how you can't see that.

Same for the other aspect - yes it's foreign policy and trade, but how they are faced up likely will be influenced by the lean of the Gov't. It shouldn't, and the best efforts should always be made to get the best result for the UK, but the worry amongst MPs/members is that it will be a factor and it's hard to see why it wouldn't.

Jobbo wrote: ↑Thu Jul 14, 2022 3:18 pm I see Braverman is out now. Thank god for that, though looking at who is left, I am not thankful for long

I see lot of positive press about Badenoch, but don't really know much about her tbh.

The rest..meh.

Swervin_Mervin wrote: ↑Thu Jul 14, 2022 3:36 pm But how the issue of the NIP is dealt with going forward is probably going to be steered to a degree by the lean of the Gov't, be that pro-Brexit or Remain, or pro/anti-EU to be more precise. I don't see how you can't see that.

Same for the other aspect - yes it's foreign policy and trade, but how they are faced up likely will be influenced by the lean of the Gov't. It shouldn't, and the best efforts should always be made to get the best result for the UK, but the worry amongst MPs/members is that it will be a factor and it's hard to see why it wouldn't.

I can see the last government fucked it up with Northern Ireland, and I can see the next one doing so as well. It's not really about Brexit any more and until people stop labelling it as being about Brexit, and acknowledge that it's about borders and the union, we aren't going to make any progress. Whether they supported Remain or Leave is irrelevant, that vote was 6 years ago and we are no longer coming at this from the same position. All I can see is politicians issuing soundbites to garner support irrespective of how possible or realistic what they say is.

I liked this tweet from James O'Brien:


Perhaps we should hope for someone so awful that they get a no-confidence vote within 12 months (Truss?) and then we'll be half way towards a level-headed future direction. I wish he'd said the Irish border, or international relations, instead of Brexit though

No one's labelling it as a Brexit issue though. Just that whether you were a brexiter or a remainer will likely affect the way you negotiate with the EU.

I think there is a fear that some might look to turn it around as well. I always assume that's the inference in the likes of the frothing that spews out of JoB as well.

It strikes me that there’s only one solution to the NIP: membership of the single market and customs union. Which we can have without rejoining the EU. But nobody is willing to say it, hence Brexit is indeed brought up all the time.

I’d suggest you’re incorrect about people labelling it a Brexit issue. You did; that’s why we’re having this discussion…

Jobbo wrote: ↑Thu Jul 14, 2022 5:33 pmAll I can see is politicians issuing soundbites to garner support irrespective of how possible or realistic what they say is.

Ive not been following too closely but Ive not seen anything about the big problems such as inflation, cost of living, energy prices, the war in Europe etc but I did read promises to go back to 1980s tax policies and removing our human rights.

MikeHunt wrote: ↑Fri Jul 15, 2022 9:35 am

Jobbo wrote: ↑Thu Jul 14, 2022 5:33 pmAll I can see is politicians issuing soundbites to garner support irrespective of how possible or realistic what they say is.

Ive not been following too closely but Ive not seen anything about the big problems such as inflation, cost of living, energy prices, the war in Europe etc but I did read promises to go back to 1980s tax policies and removing our human rights.

You'd expect with promises like that, there would be one candidate who went against the grain. I'm not seeing it.

I see that they're turning on Penny Mordaunt because if she's in the top two she might just win it, which would never do. I can only assume on that basis that she's the best candidate.

How about an outsider like getting Boris back in for the final?

So, its Truss or Sunak….

Sunak was a dead cert to make the final two, but like @duncs500 says, surely Truss is only there to make it a one horse race?

Ascender wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 4:30 pm So, its Truss or Sunak….

Sunak was a dead cert to make the final two, but like @duncs500 says, surely Truss is only there to make it a one horse race?

Truss was polling better than Sunak too, so he's got some work to do, but I guess they feel it'll give him the best chance. Obviously denials about tactical voting, yeah right. Unfortunately the chance of this being contested with integrity was always zero. What a mess our politics has become.

I think Truss will win as the majority of party members who get to vote on it are hateful old racists! They won't vote for Sunak.

Zonda_ wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 4:54 pm I think Truss will win as the majority of party members who get to vote on it are hateful old racists! They won't vote for Sunak.

Really? I think they will and he will walk it. I hate the smarmy midget as well.

Broccers wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 5:15 pm

Zonda_ wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 4:54 pm I think Truss will win as the majority of party members who get to vote on it are hateful old racists! They won't vote for Sunak.

Really? I think they will and he will walk it. I hate the smarmy midget as well.

Damnit! Are you doubting my predictions man! I said Johnson was going didn't I!

Zonda_ wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 4:54 pm I think Truss will win as the majority of party members who get to vote on it are hateful old racists! They won't vote for Sunak.

I suspect the reason they don't like him is because he's not really very conservative.

It's a shit sandwich isnt isn't it though? It won't be a conservative majority at the next election.

What a fucking car crash.

I remember someone saying many, many pages ago that once Boris finally fucks off, he'll deem everything he did a success and pat himself on the back.

Given what he said crappy leaving speech today, whoever predicted that was very correct

Just caught up on it, saved us from Covid and saved Ukraine too