OV9

So the ‘alignment’ provisions have been moved from the WA into the political declaration and therefore will be negotiated further in conjunction with a trade deal.

That’s a massive win. It was (along with the backstop) probably one of the most worrying aspects of May’s deal.

It does rather raise the question of what the fuck Olly Bobbins and May were playing at in the three years prior. To be charitable you could say the elimination of the impossible deal made the scope of a possible deal visible.

GG. wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:14 pm
If anything, I'd expect the Scots remainers to be piping up right now with a spurious argument (as it would ignore that they don't share a border with a country that will remain the EU) that they should be given the same choice.

Ian Blackford duly proving me right this morning. Clearly he’s as stupid as he is annoying.

So we’re having checks on the border between England and Scotland so you can stay in the customs union are we?

Hes so annoying. What do we think the weekend will bring? I was quite surprised Farage was so unhappy with this deal - surely getting out and then adjusting arrangements in time is the best way forward - can't have a perfect deal in one stage that is very apparent.

Genuine question for the Brexiteers on here: May’s Deal, BJ’s deal or No Deal?

I'm happy with no deal, this deal is ok as it solves NI issue where Mays deal did not.

Theyll probably vote it out tomorrow as lets be clear the mps and media love the hype - theyve never been so relevant. It's really weird watching this that the same mps are the ones on tv or speaking in parliament all the time - what do the rest of them do?

Broccers wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:22 am Hes so annoying. What do we think the weekend will bring? I was quite surprised Farage was so unhappy with this deal - surely getting out and then adjusting arrangements in time is the best way forward - can't have a perfect deal in one stage that is very apparent.

Farage would be against any deal because his default postion is opposition. He's not interested in getting a result because it would make him obsolete and he would have to think up a new grift.

NotoriousREV wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:26 am Genuine question for the Brexiteers on here: May’s Deal, BJ’s deal or No Deal?

Easy question to answer - Boris' deal all day long. The twin horrors of May's deal were the backstop (no exit mechanism so trapped indefinitely in a non-voting capacity - never something that should have been accepted let alone put to parliament three times) and reg alignment being given out of sequence with a trade deal, further demolishing any leverage we have at that stage. BJ's deal solves both those issues.

A deal is needed to avoid unnecessary disruption by having a transition period and allowing time for a trade deal and starting that off in a cooperative fashion with people we are trying to reach an amicable agreement with. The pros of a 'clean break' or 'hard' Brexit are not clear in comparison to those of a negotiated withdrawal.

Pretty sickening seeing the usual suspects trotting out that this is a 'worse deal tham May's'. Worse, yes, from the perspective that if you were hoping to achieve remain by the backdoor by trapping us in a backstop you can't do that. Worse for worker rights if you don't trust Westminster to uphold those standards without being forced to align with the EU, despite all the evidence that our maternity pay, minimum wage, etc. well outstrips many others in the EU. Get in the sea with you anti-democrats.

ZedLeg wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:32 am

Broccers wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:22 am Hes so annoying. What do we think the weekend will bring? I was quite surprised Farage was so unhappy with this deal - surely getting out and then adjusting arrangements in time is the best way forward - can't have a perfect deal in one stage that is very apparent.

Farage would be against any deal because his default postion is opposition. He's not interested in getting a result because it would make him obsolete and he would have to think up a new grift.

That's the danger with Perma-Opposition politicians such as Corbyn as well. He will never compromise because he's never developed the mindset or the skills to do so.

Shouty remainers - you think this will get through or not?

Broccers wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:23 pm Shouty remainers - you think this will get through or not?

Shouty Brexiteers, what do you think?

Jobbo wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:35 pm

Broccers wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:23 pm Shouty remainers - you think this will get through or not?

Shouty Brexiteers, what do you think?

See my earlier post.

Seems they arent too happy in the EU today with their stalled world domination
https://www.euronews.com/2019/10/18/fra ... ership-bid

Broccers wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:23 pm Shouty remainers - you think this will get through or not?

Nope. It’ll be close, though. Mainly driven by Brexit fatigue rather than enthusiastic support for the deal.

I don’t think it’ll go through on Saturday, but how can Labour get anyone to take them seriously when their Brexit solution is to go back to Endlessly trying to negotiate a new deal? When The Tories and Lib Dem’s have clear routes ready to go.

I don't think it'll get through on Saturday because plenty of MPs who might be willing to support it won't have had any real time to consider it, there's no impact assessment, etc.

I think it will be close but it will pass. Even Boles looks like he's going to vote for it. John Mann has predicted Labour rebels in double figures and you'd presume he's spoken to those concerned.

Oh and an impact assessment on what? A future trade deal that hasn't been negotiated? If you rejected it on the basis you haven't had someone attach some hypothetical made up figures to it then you're really just searching for an excuse.

Its also a modification of May's deal so "haven't had time to consider it" isn't an excuse either as the bulk of it has been out there for months. The whole charade of "I want to honour the result but can't vote for this deal" is going to come crashing down around Labours ears pretty damn quickly.

I think it'll squeak through most likely, as I detect a shifting of mode to just get this stage done.

But whatever the result it's gonna me mighty close.

I'm an optimist (although I have to keep telling myself I am ) so I think it will squeak through. I think there's a chance that enough members of the opposition will get teh fear, given many EU representatives comments about not wanting an extension.

Both Govt and EU fingers are ready to start pointing at those that don't deliver it this time. And as Rich says, do Lab really think they could magically negotiate something better, or even convince the EU to go back to the table a 3rd time?

Anyone that voted for the Benn Act supposedly to avoid a risk of a hard deal Brexit and then votes this deal down when Junker, et al are saying "no further extensions" also shouldn't be allowed to stand in front of a camera without being challenged as to why they thought there was such an unacceptable risk of no deal that they needed to pass legislation to bind the PMs hands but yet were willing to gamble the EU will come through and grant an extension despite offering a revised deal and stating there would be no extension.

Again - those wanting to frustrate the referendum result under the guise of various fabricated reasons are going to get a big spotlight shone on them and I can't think they're going to have a comfortable time - definitely not in an election.

Swervin_Mervin wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:30 pm I'm an optimist (although I have to keep telling myself I am ) so I think it will squeak through. I think there's a chance that enough members of the opposition will get teh fear, given many EU representatives comments about not wanting an extension.

Both Govt and EU fingers are ready to start pointing at those that don't deliver it this time. And as Rich says, do Lab really think they could magically negotiate something better, or even convince the EU to go back to the table a 3rd time?

Oh, and this.

Macron in particular. Whether that's true or not, his talk suggests some members might be persuaded to vote it through who otherwise wouldn't.

It’ll pass by 7 votes.