Bye Bye Boris!

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Carlos
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

Post by Carlos » Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:11 pm

Have you seen Nissan sales in Europe over the last decade ? They've dropped something like 50% !

Their offerings are mediocre at best.

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Swervin_Mervin
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

Post by Swervin_Mervin » Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:21 pm

They still linked to Renault?

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Zonda_
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

Post by Zonda_ » Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:32 pm

Carlos wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:11 pm
Have you seen Nissan sales in Europe over the last decade ? They've dropped something like 50% !

Their offerings are mediocre at best.
Their offerings have always been mediocre, my point is their employees voting to force them out.

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Rich B
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

Post by Rich B » Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:40 pm

Well of course Nissan would have to reconsider manufacturing in the uk and exporting to Europe if there’s a 10% tax to do so... hardly surprising.

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Orange Cola
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

Post by Orange Cola » Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:54 pm

Anyone who works in a manufacturing company that exports and voted for Brexit is a fucking idiot.

We buy in something like 60% of components and sub assemblies from European suppliers and export 80% of our product and yet people working there still voted for Brexit. Utterly unbelievable.

I can imagine Nissan isn’t too dissimilar to those figures given it’s the same industry.
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V8Granite
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

Post by V8Granite » Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:12 am

Orange Cola wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:54 pm
Anyone who works in a manufacturing company that exports and voted for Brexit is a fucking idiot.

We buy in something like 60% of components and sub assemblies from European suppliers and export 80% of our product and yet people working there still voted for Brexit. Utterly unbelievable.

I can imagine Nissan isn’t too dissimilar to those figures given it’s the same industry.
Some people vote for what they believe is the greater good in their opinion. Not just for their own direct interest.

Dave!

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NotoriousREV
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

Post by NotoriousREV » Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:45 am

One of my mates voted Leave in order to restore manufacturing in this country. Seriously.
Mo’ money, mo’ tard.

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Mito Man
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

Post by Mito Man » Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:07 am

Quite interesting listening to my family compare this to Sweden wanting to enter the EU in 95. The referendum was pretty much split like here almost 50/50. The old people generally didn’t want to join the EU, the young and manufacturers did. Work prospects were pretty bleak as getting out was pretty hard, the industry wasn’t sector great either.
Sweden did pretty good out of joining though, I believe per capita wealth increased 100% after 2 decades and firms like Ikea and all the paper manufacturers went on to rule in Europe. Of course things got a bit sour over the last 5 years with the immigration from the Middle East as with all of Europe but they got 20 good years out of it.
How about not having a sig at all?

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Orange Cola
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

Post by Orange Cola » Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:14 am

V8Granite wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:12 am
Orange Cola wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:54 pm
Anyone who works in a manufacturing company that exports and voted for Brexit is a fucking idiot.

We buy in something like 60% of components and sub assemblies from European suppliers and export 80% of our product and yet people working there still voted for Brexit. Utterly unbelievable.

I can imagine Nissan isn’t too dissimilar to those figures given it’s the same industry.
Some people vote for what they believe is the greater good in their opinion. Not just for their own direct interest.

Dave!
I don’t see where the greater good is in that.
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NotoriousREV
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

Post by NotoriousREV » Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:40 am

Orange Cola wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:14 am
I don’t see where the greater good is in that.
They’ll all be out of work together?
Mo’ money, mo’ tard.

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Zonda_
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

Post by Zonda_ » Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:42 am

V8Granite wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:12 am
Orange Cola wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:54 pm
Anyone who works in a manufacturing company that exports and voted for Brexit is a fucking idiot.

We buy in something like 60% of components and sub assemblies from European suppliers and export 80% of our product and yet people working there still voted for Brexit. Utterly unbelievable.

I can imagine Nissan isn’t too dissimilar to those figures given it’s the same industry.
Some people vote for what they believe is the greater good in their opinion. Not just for their own direct interest.

Dave!
Trust me, no one in Sunderland was voting for the greater good, they were voting to get rid of brown people.

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Orange Cola
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

Post by Orange Cola » Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:41 pm

NotoriousREV wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:40 am
Orange Cola wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:14 am
I don’t see where the greater good is in that.
They’ll all be out of work together?
Strength in numbers. There is no greater good when a whole industry collapses, where do you put the millions of people who are out of work? There’s no industry in the UK with millions of jobs spare to absorb them all and state welfare will collapse with that much pressure on it.

Then there’s the fact we’ll have nothing to export and trade with so even the indirectly supported domestic industries will suffer from a lack of spending.

But I guess once we’re in a full blown recession we’ll have ‘taken back control’.
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Sundayjumper
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

Post by Sundayjumper » Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:51 pm

Mito Man wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:07 am
I believe per capita wealth increased 100% after 2 decades
That's only an average of 3.5% pa.

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NotoriousREV
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

Post by NotoriousREV » Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:33 pm

Orange Cola wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:41 pm
NotoriousREV wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:40 am
Orange Cola wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:14 am
I don’t see where the greater good is in that.
They’ll all be out of work together?
Strength in numbers. There is no greater good when a whole industry collapses, where do you put the millions of people who are out of work? There’s no industry in the UK with millions of jobs spare to absorb them all and state welfare will collapse with that much pressure on it.

Then there’s the fact we’ll have nothing to export and trade with so even the indirectly supported domestic industries will suffer from a lack of spending.

But I guess once we’re in a full blown recession we’ll have ‘taken back control’.
You are aware of the concept of sarcasm, yes?
Mo’ money, mo’ tard.

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Orange Cola
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

Post by Orange Cola » Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:58 pm

NotoriousREV wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:33 pm
Orange Cola wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:41 pm
NotoriousREV wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:40 am


They’ll all be out of work together?
Strength in numbers. There is no greater good when a whole industry collapses, where do you put the millions of people who are out of work? There’s no industry in the UK with millions of jobs spare to absorb them all and state welfare will collapse with that much pressure on it.

Then there’s the fact we’ll have nothing to export and trade with so even the indirectly supported domestic industries will suffer from a lack of spending.

But I guess once we’re in a full blown recession we’ll have ‘taken back control’.
You are aware of the concept of sarcasm, yes?
Yes, and I was agreeing with you whilst backing up the point because some people (not you!) can’t read and comprehend posts in this thread so thought I’d get in early :shock: :?
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Orange Cola
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

Post by Orange Cola » Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:00 pm

Sundayjumper wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:51 pm
Mito Man wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:07 am
I believe per capita wealth increased 100% after 2 decades
That's only an average of 3.5% pa.
I’d take a retrospectively ‘guaranteed’ 3.5% per annum rise every year for twenty years for doing the exact same job as I do now. I’d take your arm off for that.
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NotoriousREV
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

Post by NotoriousREV » Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:23 pm

Orange Cola wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:58 pm
NotoriousREV wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:33 pm
Orange Cola wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:41 pm


Strength in numbers. There is no greater good when a whole industry collapses, where do you put the millions of people who are out of work? There’s no industry in the UK with millions of jobs spare to absorb them all and state welfare will collapse with that much pressure on it.

Then there’s the fact we’ll have nothing to export and trade with so even the indirectly supported domestic industries will suffer from a lack of spending.

But I guess once we’re in a full blown recession we’ll have ‘taken back control’.
You are aware of the concept of sarcasm, yes?
Yes, and I was agreeing with you whilst backing up the point because some people (not you!) can’t read and comprehend posts in this thread so thought I’d get in early :shock: :?
Gotcha. Thought you thought I was definitely saying it was a good thing :lol:
Mo’ money, mo’ tard.

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Sundayjumper
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

Post by Sundayjumper » Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:09 pm

Orange Cola wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:00 pm
I’d take a retrospectively ‘guaranteed’ 3.5% per annum rise every year for twenty years for doing the exact same job as I do now. I’d take your arm off for that.
That's not the same thing. Wealth <> salary. Well, tbf, it's not clear exactly what Mito's talking about when he says "wealth", so I'll have to guess.

Using UK GDP per capita data from HERE, I get the following figures as the average % per year for the preceding 20 years. It's tailed off quite a bit since 2015 (and people wonder why....) but historically 3.5% would have been quite low.

2018 2.09%
2017 2.05%
2016 2.62%
2015 3.35%
2014 4.03%
2013 3.92%
2012 3.22%
2011 3.32%
2010 3.21%
2009 4.00%
2008 5.16%
2007 6.49%
2006 6.96%
2005 7.70%
2004 7.79%
2003 6.65%
2002 5.67%
2001 4.97%
2000 4.92%
1999 6.68%
1998 8.04%
1997 9.08%
1996 9.24%
1995 8.75%
1994 9.21%
1993 9.21%
1992 10.50%
1991 11.09%
1990 11.54%
1989 11.41%
1988 11.72%
1987 10.28%
1986 9.29%
1985 8.53%
1984 8.58%
1983 9.33%
1982 9.88%
1981 10.38%
1980 10.82%

Here's the equivalent for Sweden. It's really pretty similar. Slightly worse generally.

2018 2.94%
2017 2.89%
2016 2.29%
2015 2.66%
2014 4.24%
2013 4.69%
2012 2.90%
2011 3.30%
2010 2.82%
2009 3.10%
2008 4.30%
2007 4.69%
2006 4.95%
2005 6.03%
2004 6.18%
2003 5.66%
2002 4.05%
2001 2.92%
2000 2.88%
1999 3.75%
1998 4.53%
1997 5.00%
1996 5.73%
1995 5.65%
1994 6.02%
1993 6.21%
1992 8.81%
1991 9.51%
1990 9.73%
1989 9.66%
1988 9.83%
1987 9.48%
1986 8.85%
1985 7.76%
1984 7.99%
1983 8.32%
1982 9.18%
1981 10.28%
1980 11.22%


Definitely not the same as wealth, but interesting to compare, is RPI. Using data from the ONS, I get the following.

2018 2.77%
2017 2.78%
2016 2.76%
2015 2.79%
2014 2.92%
2013 2.92%
2012 2.84%
2011 2.87%
2010 2.91%
2009 3.14%
2008 3.55%
2007 3.60%

Up to 2015, average GDP growth > RPI. That's good. 2016 onwards, not so good. What happened in 2016 ??

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Orange Cola
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

Post by Orange Cola » Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:57 pm

Sundayjumper wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:09 pm
Orange Cola wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:00 pm
I’d take a retrospectively ‘guaranteed’ 3.5% per annum rise every year for twenty years for doing the exact same job as I do now. I’d take your arm off for that.
That's not the same thing. Wealth <> salary. Well, tbf, it's not clear exactly what Mito's talking about when he says "wealth", so I'll have to guess.

Using UK GDP per capita data from HERE, I get the following figures as the average % per year for the preceding 20 years. It's tailed off quite a bit since 2015 (and people wonder why....) but historically 3.5% would have been quite low.

2018 2.09%
2017 2.05%
2016 2.62%
2015 3.35%
2014 4.03%
2013 3.92%
2012 3.22%
2011 3.32%
2010 3.21%
2009 4.00%
2008 5.16%
2007 6.49%
2006 6.96%
2005 7.70%
2004 7.79%
2003 6.65%
2002 5.67%
2001 4.97%
2000 4.92%
1999 6.68%
1998 8.04%
1997 9.08%
1996 9.24%
1995 8.75%
1994 9.21%
1993 9.21%
1992 10.50%
1991 11.09%
1990 11.54%
1989 11.41%
1988 11.72%
1987 10.28%
1986 9.29%
1985 8.53%
1984 8.58%
1983 9.33%
1982 9.88%
1981 10.38%
1980 10.82%

Here's the equivalent for Sweden. It's really pretty similar. Slightly worse generally.

2018 2.94%
2017 2.89%
2016 2.29%
2015 2.66%
2014 4.24%
2013 4.69%
2012 2.90%
2011 3.30%
2010 2.82%
2009 3.10%
2008 4.30%
2007 4.69%
2006 4.95%
2005 6.03%
2004 6.18%
2003 5.66%
2002 4.05%
2001 2.92%
2000 2.88%
1999 3.75%
1998 4.53%
1997 5.00%
1996 5.73%
1995 5.65%
1994 6.02%
1993 6.21%
1992 8.81%
1991 9.51%
1990 9.73%
1989 9.66%
1988 9.83%
1987 9.48%
1986 8.85%
1985 7.76%
1984 7.99%
1983 8.32%
1982 9.18%
1981 10.28%
1980 11.22%


Definitely not the same as wealth, but interesting to compare, is RPI. Using data from the ONS, I get the following.

2018 2.77%
2017 2.78%
2016 2.76%
2015 2.79%
2014 2.92%
2013 2.92%
2012 2.84%
2011 2.87%
2010 2.91%
2009 3.14%
2008 3.55%
2007 3.60%

Up to 2015, average GDP growth > RPI. That's good. 2016 onwards, not so good. What happened in 2016 ??
Comparing the raw figures isn’t right though, I’d love the 11% pay rise of the late 80’s and early 90’s but you can get fucked if you think I want the mortgage rates and almost living off beans on toast life style of the time. The 2000’s are also recession inducing levels of increase and we’ve learned a lot from that since the 2008 crash (given, a lot of the blame is to be put into banks allowing massive borrowing rates which people couldn’t afford even on big increase per annum).

Growth is good and healthy, but too much growth is unhealthy and the last thirty or so years have taught us that much like the 2016 onwards figures show us stagnation is an equal killer.
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Sundayjumper
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

Post by Sundayjumper » Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:30 pm

Orange Cola wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:57 pm
Comparing the raw figures isn’t right though, I’d love the 11% pay rise of the late 80’s and early 90’s but you can get fucked if you think I want the mortgage rates and almost living off beans on toast life style of the time.
I'll have to say it again - I'm not talking about salaries. I absolutely did not say that people got an 11% payrise in 1991.
Sundayjumper wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:09 pm
Using UK GDP per capita data from HERE, I get the following figures as the average % per year for the preceding 20 years.
So from 1971-1991, GDP per capita rose at an average of 11.09% pa. That's over 700% in total. I was addressing Mito's 100% over 2 decades figure and pointing out it's not very much compared to GDP & RPI (depending exactly which twenty years he was talking about, obvs).

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