OV9

So I see that Musk is announcing more redundancies in Sales/Marketing and closure of Tesla 'Stores' so that they can drive down costs, citing that >70% of people order their car online.

Look on Twitter-land and you can see people saying 'but I want to be able to sit in/feel/test drive a car before I buy it', and the normal Tesla fanbois piping up with (and this was literally an example) 'did you sit in/feel/test drive that book you bought online first?'. Only in the mind of a Tesla fanboy is that a valid comparison.

And then on test drives they say 'but Tesla gives you a 7 day/1000 mile unconditional return policy when you buy one, what other manufacturer does that?'. That they do, but how can you possibly compare that with a test drive? You buy a car and that is statistically likely to involve a finance product and probably a trade-in. Imagine the hassle of setting all that up and then unwind it just to 'test drive' a car for 7 days. And you can't 'undo' a trade-in. Also, any test drive during a car purchase is likely to be part of a series of test drives against other manufacturers cars. What are you supposed to do? Buy 5-6 different cars at the same time then return all those you don't like? F'king idiots.

All part of the reality distortion bubble that encompasses fan boys and their inability to critically think about anything.

The US is already heavily into leasing rather than buying, so the whole trade-in/finance product question goes away. The UK is moving towards that model too. Teslas seem ideal candidates for the leasing model; it gets rid of any concern about longevity (of the cars or the batteries).

If they really are the new Apple, you're expecting them to become the dominant player in the market, right?

Maybe I'm in a minority but I couldn't care less. My last 3 cars have been arranged remotely and delivered to me without me seeing, sitting in or driving them (and I currently have a car on the way from Japan that I've only seen photos of). There's already hundreds of nerdy Model 3 videos looking at every possible aspect of the car so most can decide if it's for them or not. There's a few hire companies here doing Model S and X and I'm sure they'll have Model 3 soon enough if you did want to drive one without committing to buy.

Trade in? I thought everyone just offered WBAC prices these days so you may as well dispose direct through them or similar.

I can't see physical sales stuff disappearing entirely but I think it'll make sense for them to have some kind of limited showroom at suitable service centres. If you look at their map of stores (mostly in shopping malls) there's huge numbers now and plenty are clustered too close together. Effectively that retail operation was just to get people to look at the cars, the "sales" staff were just to facilitate online transactions. Unlike Apple, they can't just be sitting on million of pounds of stock in a back room and swipe a credit card to hand it over.

Hyundai sold their year's worth of allocation of electric Konas direct through their Click2buy website before any dealers had demos. Kia are probably going to do the same with the new eNiro and eSoul. There's a lot of people that don't want or need a shiny-suited idiot in a glass box on an industrial estate to buy a car, and I think more brands will scale back on that in favour of engaging with people directly.

simon_g wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:44 am Hyundai sold their year's worth of allocation of electric Konas direct through their Click2buy website before any dealers had demos. Kia are probably going to do the same with the new eNiro and eSoul. There's a lot of people that don't want or need a shiny-suited idiot in a glass box on an industrial estate to buy a car, and I think more brands will scale back on that in favour of engaging with people directly.

Difference is with those models you could at least pop to your nearest dealership and sit in the ICE version to see if the seats are going to cripple you or not etc.

I use hire cars a few times a year, always going for the cheapest level, and drive them 4-5 hours in one go. Not had anything crippling, and doubt there’s anything on sale today that would.

Even if you were more sensitive, would sitting in one in a dealership then a quick 15 minute drive up to the bypass and back tell you that?

simon_g wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:00 am I use hire cars a few times a year, always going for the cheapest level, and drive them 4-5 hours in one go. Not had anything crippling, and doubt there’s anything on sale today that would.

Even if you were more sensitive, would sitting in one in a dealership then a quick 15 minute drive up to the bypass and back tell you that?

Based on recent experience, yes. And there's plenty on sale that some of us find crippling. Besides, it's not just whether you can get comfy, but a number of other factors as well. Fit and finish, ease of use of controls. What the car's actually like to drive.

I don't get it. You're effectively willing to make the second largest 'purchase' of your life online and happy if you don't get to sit in it first.

OK here's one. I'm 6'3". My brother's 6'6". Trying to find a car for him to sit comfortably, where his head isn't brushing the headlining of where the B pillar isn't creating a new blind spot has been really fucking hard. He went in a Model S taxi recently and found that because of the battery pack underneath it meant that he was sitting far too high.

I also don't buy the argument that just because someone is leasing they don't want to try it first. If you're going for the cheapest hire car when you have them and not had anything crippling after a 4-5 hour drive, I'd consider you the exception and incredibly lucky.

"The US is already heavily into leasing rather than buying, so the whole trade-in/finance product question goes away. The UK is moving towards that model too"

No it doesn't. If you have and rely on a car, you can't just send back your new Tesla and instantaneously magic a replacement on the driveway. You'll be without a car. And lease is still a finance product.

A lease is not a finance product in the sense that if you terminate within the 7 days, it's finished. You don't hand back the car and separately agree with a finance company that the loan is repaid. It's really not an issue.

As for relying on a car, lots of people lease cars and do this all the time. There are always lease cars in stock from various manufacturers; choose something from stock.

I thought you can still test drive, a Tesla employee just drops the car off for you at a location of your choice?
Another problem Tesla have is that they don’t want franchises as they want complete control over everything so it’s no wonder they have huge overheads.

I can understand them reducing the number of dealerships, but I personally would not buy unless I had access to drive one and have a poke around.

Scotland only has one showroom - in Edinburgh City Centre. I guess they could save money by making the Service Centre a showroom, but its on a trading estate.

Tesla just chopped $6k off the Model S price... a second price reduction. Everything is fine!!! (Plus there’s now $35k Model 3’s available - worries about recent tweets Elon?)

Leasing in the US has recently been red flagged. Over 7 million people are 90+ days behind with their leases and with $600bn in leases, mass defaults would be felt worldwide.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidkiley ... ssion=true

Most people (including most people on here as we found) aren’t bothered about test driving cars any more. Bizarre but true.

I'm assuming they've realised there is no quick fix for their quality issues so have whacked a chunk off the price so people are more accepting of the finish they get.

I'm not really that bothered by the cars any more, more that musk is held up as some sort of god like creature for rehashing ancient ideas and promising all sorts of things he's never going to deliver which if you dare criticise, his legion of fanboys will leap to his defence.

Nearly all cars are picked on their looks, we don’t get truly bad cars anymore with any tiny defect being splashed over the internet and, if you’re buying a new car and not 2nd hand, then there’s no need to test drive one. Especially true if you want an electric car as there’s not much choice out there.

I test drove a Model S, and it put me off buying one, so this may increase sales!

IanF wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:36 am Tesla just chopped $6k off the Model S price... a second price reduction. Everything is fine!!! (Plus there’s now $35k Model 3’s available - worries about recent tweets Elon?)

Leasing in the US has recently been red flagged. Over 7 million people are 90+ days behind with their leases and with $600bn in leases, mass defaults would be felt worldwide.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidkiley ... ssion=true

That is pretty frightening!

simon_g wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:44 am I think more brands will scale back on that in favour of engaging with people directly.

Not quite right - while all brands do or are starting the Direct Dales channels, they will all continue to sell cars to any dealer who wants to buy them (I.e. Dealers who think they can retail the car as cash, leasing or Purchase products)

It will be the Dealer Groups that will change - sites potentially closing, being rationalised into Regional Super Sites etc.

IanF wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:36 am Leasing in the US has recently been red flagged. Over 7 million people are 90+ days behind with their leases and with $600bn in leases, mass defaults would be felt worldwide.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidkiley ... ssion=true

That article seems to refer to loans and people taking on longer loan terms - so not leases.

simon_g wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:44 am I think more brands will scale back on that in favour of engaging with people directly.

This reminded me of the soon to open new Merc dealership in Stockport. https://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/news/s ... een-light/

I cannot stress just how vast the thing is!

The M4 going to Heathrow is always impressive to drive down, all the dealers have high rise buildings so you can see their cars going past the elevated motorway - it’s basically used as a massive advertisement hoarding so the people travelling in and out of London can all see. Wouldn’t want to test drive a car there though as it’s almost always gridlocked.

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:26 pm

simon_g wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:44 am I think more brands will scale back on that in favour of engaging with people directly.

This reminded me of the soon to open new Merc dealership in Stockport. https://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/news/s ... een-light/

I cannot stress just how vast the thing is!

Key fact is that this is an LSH site - they also own all the MB sites in Birmingham and Manchester and are a new entrant into the UK Market - about 3 years ago