OV9

Ok, forum parents.

Has anyone recently gone through an 11+ with their kids ?

Our eldest has said he really wants to go to the local Grammar school. He is a clever boy but very easily distracted but seems highly motivated to pass the 11+ so he gets put on the list for the school.

We’ve seen the exams and don’t want to get a tutor as think it may be setting him up to fail as when in the school he would have to do it all himself and be self motivated.

Is that the right way to look at it ?

The 11+ exams seem fairly straightforward and logical but they are very different than his normal exams.

Any hints and advice would be very welcome.

Dave!

Not there yet, but my sister's lot are closer to it, she seemed to think tutoring is essential if they've only been in standard state education.

We've just done it with our eldest.

My advice is to get a tutor. It is a stupid game (the system), he needs to learn to pass the test and nothing else. Ours really benefited from tutoring, partly because it was someone not us that did it and because she was a professional tutor who could easily assess where he needed help.

Depending on where you live, make sure he is aware that passing the test only gets you the ability to apply, it doesn't guarantee a place. We didn't get a place at any of the three schools we applied for.

Good luck to him. If he's good at knuckling down, he'll do well. Focus seems to be the thing boys specifically struggle with.

Edit: forgot to add, one of the things the tutor helped him develop was coping mechanisms. How to deal with a question you can't figure out, how to come back and review, that sort of thing. And, if you do tutoring in a group setting, it could be helpful for him to see others working on the same things too. Ours was quite upset because he felt that others didn't have to do the extra work (about a third of his class did 11+), but showing him and talking to others helped motivate him (sometimes).

It seems I may need to rethink the tutor part then
We will have a look to see what is about

Completely understand it’s not a given he will get in the school but he seems to understand that luckily.

I noticed on one of the practice tests he has 37 seconds per question if he is to complete them all which seems short.

Getting him to focus will be a bit of a parenting challenge, luckily this one takes bribes.

Dave!

It very much depends on how he is and how well he can manage. All the kids that I know took the tests here were tutored, either in groups or 1-2-1. We went for the latter because we know the tutor, and the boy benefited from being in that type of setting.

We also bought loads of 11+ work books, and the mocks/previous years' tests to get him familiar and comfortable with the format.

3 years away from it. But having been through the system myself (without tutoring) I wouldn't worry too much about tutoring setting him up to fail once he gets there - as Alex says it's very much just to get in.

I had tutoring 36 years ago, if that helps Passed the 11+ and other private school entrance exams with it. It definitely helps.

36 years ago mind.

I had zero tutoring 36 years ago and passed, if that helps

I had zero tutoring slightly more than 36 years ago and passed the 11+ and the entrance exams to two private schools.

Is it much much harder now or something ?

Sundayjumper wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 7:44 am I had zero tutoring slightly more than 36 years ago and passed the 11+ and the entrance exams to two private schools.

Is it much much harder now or something ?

All I remember is that it was interesting to see who got in and who didn't, there were always a few surprises. Don't grammar schools have a major impact on house prices these days? And it sounds like tuition has become de rigeur, so maybe it's simply got way more competitive?

As I remember it, as I was 'out of borough' for the school I went to I had to achieve a higher score than people who lived closer. Is that still the case?

DeskJockey wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 8:57 pm Edit: forgot to add, one of the things the tutor helped him develop was coping mechanisms. How to deal with a question you can't figure out, how to come back and review, that sort of thing

This is something that's entirely missing - we used to call it Exam Craft - for normal state school - at least where mini dinny went (which is the best school, results wise, in the area). I tried to speak with him on this and he looked at me like i had two heads.

• Read the Entire Paper before starting to pick the questions you are going to answer

• Jot down high level notes, reminders, pointers for each question you are going to attempt before you start

• Divide the total marks for the paper by the time to work out how long to spend in each question

• Stick religiously to this timing. You'll get more marks starting a new question than you will fine tuning another

etc. etc.

This isn't like when we were kids unfortunately - the world has changed.

It is very dependent on where you live in the country as to how ridiculous it is but in SE England it is a cut throat process and many kids in good private prep schools (who are being taught a year ahead of state schools) are being tutored.

We are looking within the context of the various different 11+ exams that are done for private schools but I don't expect doing the 11+ for entry to a grammar is going to be easier. It also differs depending on which school/area of the country so a local tutor could be pivotal in getting them properly prepared for it. At the very least they will often offer an initial assessment to give feedback as to what areas they need to focus on and an opinion on what their likely chance of success is.

I don't think there were any grammar schools round my way where I grew up (Camberley, Surrey) - I don't know of anyone who went to one.

I did an exam when I was in year 5 and passed but don’t remember it being the 11+, I think it was just so schools could punch the clever ones.
The exam though wasn’t anything like the ones now though, it was listing countries, a plane flies x hours at this heading, maths and biology etc etc. The new ones are multiple choice and a bit cryptic.

I haven’t even mentioned this too him but he wants to earn a lot of money and wants to get the best grades he can, so if that’s his push then fine.

He will have to get the bus to school but it’s not that far away, 30 minutes door to door.

So exam craft, tutor to see where he is, all the practice papers in the world and some encouragement where needed.

I shall keep this up to date as it’s quite interesting and not anything I’ve looked at before.

Dave!

I passed it without tutoring but that was a while ago and I don't know anyone else who did. Grew up on Kent/Sussex border though where there were quite a few grammar schools so I guess less competition for places.

Daughter is getting tutoring, not entirely sure on applying for grammar but she's enjoying it and getting them used to the verbal / non-verbal reasoning, exam technique, working under time pressure etc is useful regardless. And a bit of extra maths and English doesn't hurt either.

Both me and my sister refused to do the 11+ ..... Parents wanted us to do it but we just wanted to go to the same local school as our mates were.

Stupidity and short sightedness of youth.

Simon wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 9:25 am As I remember it, as I was 'out of borough' for the school I went to I had to achieve a higher score than people who lived closer. Is that still the case?

Yes. That's what caught us out. The further away from the school, the higher the score you need to be considered.

DeskJockey wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 10:51 am

Simon wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 9:25 am As I remember it, as I was 'out of borough' for the school I went to I had to achieve a higher score than people who lived closer. Is that still the case?

Yes. That's what caught us out. The further away from the school, the higher the score you need to be considered.

There are rumours that this systems is rigged though. Let's just say there are increasing numbers of "out of area" students at the state grammars where we live. And those grammars have been seeing higher and higher rankings in the tables over recent years.

Shouldn't happen in my view - where grammars are state funded pupils should be taken from entirely within the Borough.

We've got one of the best grammars in the country a mile from our house. Used to be that we'd be right in the mix for a space (and the school is associated with the church my wife attends, and they used to give preference to members of the youth choir which my son sings in). But they were sued and lost, meaning they had to open up to applicants from all of London. So rather than being a local school for local children (not in the Royston Vasey sense), they've now got children commuting from North London (2h+ each way) to attend, and 1500+ applicants for 240 places. It is crazy.