OV9

Which I know are properly called "head restraints" but anyways. I have moaned about this before. The difference is that today I have a diagram to illustrate it !

It seems that somewhere around 2010, manufacturers changed their seat designs to put the head <thing> much further forwards. I'm not sure why. Every pre-2010 car I've had did not do this. Cars I've had and had this issue with - 2011 5-Series, 2014 Passat, 2017 Range Rover. All post-2010. Post-2010 cars I've had that did not have this issue - 2012 7-Series, but that had the super-duper "comfort" seats where the upper back could be adjusted back & forth and I guess mitigated it.

I sat in a few new BMWs at a show a year or two back and they were all like it. The worst were the M cars with expensive optional carbon bucket seats because the back & head <thing> are in one piece with no adjustment at all. Awful.

I might be an outlier. I'm tall and apparently have superb posture. Maybe I also have a head like a Pterodactyl. We won't go there.




But here's a pic of the RR seat and the shape I need to assume if I'd like my shoulders to be supported.


Who TF has that kind of posture ? Quasimodo. Anyone else ??

It wasn't totally apparent on a 20 minute test drive where you're trying to take in loads of new stuff all at once. With a few 2-hr journeys under my belt it's now bugging me.

Compare to a bucket seat in the 996. Straight back and very comfy.

Yep, it’s shit. Very few seats are as comfy as my old bmw sports seats, some new cars you have to recline the back so they don’t bang your head, but then your back isn’t supported.

I guess it’s some sort of ncap whiplash tick box thing.

Although, to be honest the only car we have that’s new enough to suffer is the mito, which isn’t that bad. Rear seat headrests are crap though, you have to lift them up otherwise they dig into your spine because they overhang the seat back.

Weirdly I don't think I ever lean back enough that my head touches the headrest otherwise I'd be looking at the sunvisor. But the reason they jut out like that is to reduce whiplash. I assume crash tests for whiplash got stricter around 2010.

Sundayjumper wrote: Thu Jun 06, 2024 11:07 pm It wasn't totally apparent on a 20 minute test drive where you're trying to take in loads of new stuff all at once. With a few 2-hr journeys under my belt it's now bugging me.

I think you now have two reasons to upgrade to the facelift (this and the dynamic road mode) - the headrest in the later car moves forward and back electronically

It does look weird though - I can't remember my pre-facelift having a headrest so far forward.

Oh - ETA - the A pillar material on my car is cloth. Fancy pants leather must be Autobiography spec.

There seems to be a profusion of new cars with integrated headrests (not just on solid bucket seats) - many Porsches, the Golf GTI I was looking at in Autocar this week, my Audi - not sure how many non-German cars, mind you.

Would that be better for you? The Range Rover does look odd.

Funnily enough, I was looking at a new shape FFRR irl and commented on the headrests yesterday! They do see to stick forward a considerable distance.

You can also get headrests with a soft bag om the front on the S-Class (and maybe RR?). I guess they’re extremely comfortable as they look like an old saggy bag to me!

integrale_evo wrote: Thu Jun 06, 2024 11:43 pm Yep, it’s shit. Very few seats are as comfy as my old bmw sports seats, some new cars you have to recline the back so they don’t bang your head, but then your back isn’t supported.

I guess it’s some sort of ncap whiplash tick box thing.

I was thinking the same, E36/E46 sport seats were perfect for me. 7-Series comfort seats were good too but hugely complicated and I wouldn’t necessarily say they were significantly better for it. The E36/E46 “just worked”.

Yeah probably NCAP or some other legislation. Although it doesn’t make sense to me, if in an accident I’m forcefully thrown into that position above, it seems like that would cause more damage than keeping neck & back straight ? Need some input from a chiropractor or osteopath there.

I forgot to give some credit to the MINI - that’s 2011 and is OK.

GG. wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2024 12:01 am I think you now have two reasons to upgrade to the facelift (this and the dynamic road mode) - the headrest in the later car moves forward and back electronically

Heh ! It did cross my mind whether they can be retrofitted, but the controls are on the door in the facelift ? So that’s going to be impractically difficult. How far back does it go, enough to make the backrest-headrest profile fairly smooth ? I should have a look at one I guess, just to compare, although I’m not planning on spending the £10-15k needed to upgrade right now.

Jobbo wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2024 6:26 am There seems to be a profusion of new cars with integrated headrests (not just on solid bucket seats) - many Porsches, the Golf GTI I was looking at in Autocar this week, my Audi - not sure how many non-German cars, mind you.

Would that be better for you? The Range Rover does look odd.

Likely worse at a guess. If there’s no height adjustment to the head rest then the back of my head will probably be against the very top of the seat, the edge that’s furthest forward.

I do think it’s a height / posture problem and I’m an outlier in that.

I did a quick search and I see several people raising similar concerns. example one, or example2

Sounds like the headrests on lower models may be thinner (I've seen comments on "winged" headrests vs "windsor") but the most interesting comment I saw was to replace the fronts with another pair of rears (and that is something you can obviously easily test in your own car)

First thread is a 2011 - so an L322 - which I guess are slightly different.

Second thread is mainly replies from people that either didn't read or didn't understand the question !

I've seen a few other threads as well now, it seems to be a common-ish gripe but no sign of any real solutions. More commonly there's an underlying theme of "you're DIW my RR is the best car evar" from the fanbois.

Non-winged headrests from a Vogue were the direction I was heading in. Front & rear in mine are identically shaped but with slightly different poles as the fronts are electric while the rears are manual.

The integrated sports seats in the Skoda are like this. And no extending squab under the legs either. I find it pretty uncomfortable on longer journeys as I like quite an upright seat back which then means my head is being pushed forward. The wife finds it quite comfortable though. But then I've proportionally got a longer torso.

E91 sport seats are perfect though.

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2024 12:21 pm E91 sport seats are perfect though.

There's certainly a lot of BMW Sport seat love going on here !

The E90 straddled whatever happened in 2010-ish. I'm going to have to go and see if the LCI got different seats.

Sundayjumper wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2024 8:55 am

GG. wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2024 12:01 am I think you now have two reasons to upgrade to the facelift (this and the dynamic road mode) - the headrest in the later car moves forward and back electronically

Heh ! It did cross my mind whether they can be retrofitted, but the controls are on the door in the facelift ? So that’s going to be impractically difficult. How far back does it go, enough to make the backrest-headrest profile fairly smooth ? I should have a look at one I guess, just to compare, although I’m not planning on spending the £10-15k needed to upgrade right now.

Yep they're on the door (which is actually a nice upgrade in itself rather than fumbling down the side of the seat - I think mercedes have had that setup for years).

The headrests are very pillowy on mine so your head does move someway "into" them. I actually have mine set in the forward position! I'll have to take a photo of forward/back for you to take a look at.

Sundayjumper wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2024 1:25 pm

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2024 12:21 pm E91 sport seats are perfect though.

There's certainly a lot of BMW Sport seat love going on here !

The E90 straddled whatever happened in 2010-ish. I'm going to have to go and see if the LCI got different seats.

The E8x 1series ones were similarly as good (maybe the same?). But the ones in the F20 weren't as good. But I wasn't aware of the headrest thing back then so could've been that.

GG. wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2024 2:04 pm The headrests are very pillowy on mine so your head does move someway "into" them. I actually have mine set in the forward position! I'll have to take a photo of forward/back for you to take a look at.

This photo from an ebay listing looks better - is that all the way in ? It has nothing like the "step" I have going on.

I think it's because of a reg, IIRC. Something to do with moveable rests need to meet the head better to help reduce whiplash. I prefer them to have a step personally as it suits my bodyshape better.

I wonder if the ones in my XF are the same size?

https://images.app.goo.gl/LcvJNxAGJYM5DEhD8

You can alter the angle/tilt as well as the height, height is adjusted by motor, tilt is manual.

The shape & the button on the side does look the same as the Vogue headrests. I’ll check eBay for XF headrests as well as RR.

Mine do tilt, FWIW, but it doesn’t seem to make much difference.