OV9

Friends round last night. Bloke is from "The North" (of England) and - as we were going for food - lead us into a brief debate on pies.

His position is that a pie is only a pie if it encases the contents in pastry. None of this cook it in a tray/pot/wotevah and place a pastry "lid" on the top shenanigans.

We didn't even get into the subject of pastry-less options like fish pie or cottage pie....

A pie has to be portable with no other support from pots etc, the rest are just pastry topped whatever’s,

I don’t really like short crust pastry so would be more than happy for any pie to just be a Bastet disk on top of a thick stew.

As mentioned cottage / shepherds pie have no side support and no pastry. Then again, I don’t really like mash either so both of those would be better with a puff pastry lid.

You've missed the whole weird American pizza pie (as I understand it, a literal translation of the Italian name for pizzas?)

I don't discriminate against any pie, or item of food identifying as pie. To quote famous Scottish glutton Fat Bastard: "get in ma belly!".

Unless it's specifically a shepherd's or cowherd's pie the lack of pastry sides for a "pie" should be considered the grossest form of false advertising.

Zonda_ wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 9:54 pm A pie has to be portable with no other support from pots etc, the rest are just pastry topped whatever’s,

This. If there’s no pastry on the bottom it’s just stew with an edible lid

Mashed potato topped things have a special dispensation, unless they’re mini versions. In which case they should be in pastry

jamcg wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 11:28 pm

Zonda_ wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 9:54 pm A pie has to be portable with no other support from pots etc, the rest are just pastry topped whatever’s,

This. If there’s no pastry on the bottom it’s just stew with an edible lid

Mashed potato topped things have a special dispensation, unless they’re mini versions. In which case they should be in pastry

Basically this.

Good luck eating your baseless pie without a knife and fork you filthy animals.

When the apocalypse comes we will be well fed with our practical and tasty pies.

Dave!

(Love a shepards pie, I have no argument for this one)

I don't think we can define it as being encased in pastry because of shepherd's pie, fish pie etc., but a pastry lid on top on a dish of pie filling sounds pathetic.

A really big bugbear of mine since moving to London has been that it's literally impossible to find a decent pie at the supermarket. Back in Northern Ireland any supermarket would stock multiple brands of really good pie, Cloughbane Farm Shop is one I remember the name of but there was another even better one. But despite the English being so proud of their pies, all the ones I've had here are cardboard-pastry disappointments. I'm sure in Yorkshire and places like that do better but I've tried to find pies in Liverpool as well and haven't had any luck there.

People in the North always seem so concerned about what foods called. I'm happy for there to be a variety of pie recipes for however much pastry the chef wants to use (or not, in the case of shepherds and cottage pie.

Correct Rich - there are many types of pie. Some encased in pastry, some not. They’re all pies.

And because not all ‘Meat fully encased in Pastry’ are pies - Cornish Pasty for example, it fails as a hard and fast definition IMO

What about pies with a bottom but no top? Custard pie, Pecan pie etc etc

I fear the horse has already bolted with regard to keeping the pie definition pure

No option for hairy?

There's room for all types of pie imo.

Shepherd's/cottage pie - mash
Fish pie - pastry lid (or mash?)
Meat pie - fully encased, bring on the calories.

JonMad wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 10:04 am Shepherd's/cottage pie - mash
Fish pie - pastry lid (or mash?)
Meat pie - fully encased, bring on the calories.

Fish pie and Shepherd's pie have special dispensation for not actually being pies. A little like how Angel Delight is in fact not delightful.

What we need is a legal mind to rule on the subject, as occurred with the great Jaffa Cake debate https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manual ... /vfood6260
@GG. any prospect of passing legislation to crack down on our wayward food naming?

Nefarious wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 9:06 am What about pies with a bottom but no top? Custard pie, Pecan pie etc etc

I fear the horse has already bolted with regard to keeping the pie definition pure

There was a government petition in relation to this. The numbers are impressive.

https://petition.parliament.uk/archived/petitions/46504

mik wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 10:33 am

Nefarious wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 9:06 am What about pies with a bottom but no top? Custard pie, Pecan pie etc etc

I fear the horse has already bolted with regard to keeping the pie definition pure

There was a government petition in relation to this. The numbers are impressive.

https://petition.parliament.uk/archived/petitions/46504

I'm not passionate about it. Usually the pastry under a pie isn't great anyway, so I'm fine to replace that volume with a bit more meat / sauce etc.

As long as I know I'm getting some pastry and the filling of my choice, I'm happy.

The above only applies to sit down meals mind you, on the go full encasement and not too liquidy filling are crucial.