OV9

Perfect car: 500hp, 1000kg, switchable 4WD, short shift manual with automatic mode, 2+2 shape, able to fit 2 big dogs in boot (without blending them first), 100mpg..

But very, very ugly; would you buy one?

I’d probably be a no, as daft as it would clearly be. A big part of car ownership for me is owning something I like to look at too!

I did something perfect but ugly this morning.

Sundayjumper wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2023 9:50 am I did something perfect but ugly this morning.

im sure she doesn’t like being called that…

I realised some time back that it’s mostly (but not all) about the driving experience for me. The car is simply the vehicle (pun intended) to access the driving experience. I like products as opposed to brands - have zero brand loyalty. Hence I selected “yes”, but in reality… if it’s really ugly I might opt for the 2nd best car in the world that is a bit prettier.

Via the Emira / Harry’s Garage discussions, I have learned that the perfect car is a strictly 2–seater 2+2 with 4 adult sized seats, which is both wide and long but extremely compact. It should have around 600bhp from a bespoke (preferably 8 or more cylinder) IC engine, developed and manufactured by the manufacturer of the vehicle. The gearbox should have long cruising ratios whilst avoiding being high-geared or having any ratios that might be considered short. It should weigh less than a tonne and exude desirability, with a selling price of around £30k and positive residuals.

Easy.

Not a chance. It's not perfect if it's ugly. Virtually nobody bought a VX200 over an Elise because it was basically the same but uglier. I'm sure there are plenty of other examples of similar pairs of cars.

Ugly blends in with popular road/family cars of the time, sure.
Ugly stands out like a SSangyong Rodius in a car park full of Ferrari, nope.

I reckon it’s why the Alpine never really sold well despite being a great car. It doesn’t even look ugly it’s just awkward inside and out.
I saw this thread then was browsing twitter and thought this car fitted the description
https://x.com/roberto93w/status/1691175 ... PRz7S-WsdA
£3 million and it looks thoroughly underwhelming.

Mito Man wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2023 11:28 am I reckon it’s why the Alpine never really sold well despite being a great car. It doesn’t even look ugly it’s just awkward inside and out.
I saw this thread then was browsing twitter and thought this car fitted the description
https://x.com/roberto93w/status/1691175 ... PRz7S-WsdA
£3 million and it looks thoroughly underwhelming.

The fan car looks are a great example - it's just dull - for all the pioneering use of carbon fibre in their past, they've not taken any advantage whatsoever of what the material can do and just made a dull jelly mound that could easily be made of fibre glass by an amateur.

The alpine is a great looking thing though!

Rich B wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2023 11:35 am

The alpine is a great looking thing though!

Yep

Your perfect isn't my perfect. But I'd struggle to put money on something that wasn't at least somewhat pleasing to the eye.

Yeah I’d have it

I’d have to like how it looked to spend money on it no matter how good it was.

It wouldn’t matter if other people didn’t like it or it wasn’t thought of as good looking. I quite like slightly challenging of unusual proportions. An e36 compact is hardly a good looking of pretty car but there’s something about them I like.

I kind of get what Chris is saying, not to dismiss it just because of its looks, but why can’t it be the last of its kind, a great drivers car AND good looking. Why do we have to excuse it looking like a dogs dinner because it drives nicely?

I’m afraid I’d take a slightly worse driving but far better looking car every time.

Also you can always improve the mechanical aspects of a car and make it drive better to suit you more. It's much more difficult to change the way a car looks.

DeskJockey wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2023 12:48 pm Your perfect isn't my perfect.

Very much that: You won’t find a single NCG who thinks the Integrale Evo looks attractive. Despite the truth that it looks fucking epic.

It would depend on the definition of ugly, as others have suggested. And also whether you find it ugly.

Look at something like a Metro 6R4 - most normal people think it's ugly, I think it's brutish and oddly purposeful. I'd have one tomorrow and wouldn't care what anyone else thinks.

I'm not sure I'd be that interested in an M4 or most recent large fast BMWs etc though. I find those to be ugly (I'm sure others think they look purposeful, even if they are objectively incorrect in their opinion ) and I'd not have one tomorrow, regardless of what anyone else thinks.