OV9

...forum submersible experts?

Surprised there is no thread on the situation. Awful for the families but at least it would seem they were gone in an instant.

Yeah - they wouldn't have know it was coming - it's a terrible thing to happen but at least it was a long drawn out hypoxic death. That would he awful.

The company sounds like a fly by night bunch of cowboys - it mean it was controlled by a Play Station controller and he had admitted on camera that he broke rules.

People are going to Prison over this one.

Far better that it was "instantaneous" rather than a slow drawn out process, trying not to panic, minimising movement and even speech. That's almost unfathomable (I'd typed that before I even realised the pun).

Sounds like it collapsed on the way down - so they wouldn't even have seen the object they were so desperate to see. (And given how much detailed footage is available of the wreck - I'm not really sure why it was so important to them to view it with their own eyes? Other than bragging rights? Conversely - I can fully understand people wanting to take the risks to go into space / low level orbit, as I am sure camera footage doesn't do it justice..... )

Interesting that the US Navy heard something early doors - and shared that info with the Coastguard - so clearly everyone was aware of the probability that just needed to be confirmed. I'd guess the families were told this too? I wonder what the subsequent banging noises that were reported were?

@mik It seems that it lost contact then a short while later imploded, so whilst it would've been instantaneous I think they'd had know 'something' was wrong?

dinny_g wrote: Fri Jun 23, 2023 1:55 pm People are going to Prison over this one.

'Mercuh, so there will certainly be lawsuits. Guess we'll find out how wat.... I can't say it.... how robust the waiver they signed is/was. It does sound like they were pretty up-front about it's prototype status/design and lack of external-body classification..... and the more than insignificant possibility that they would not return.

Simon wrote: Fri Jun 23, 2023 2:08 pm @mik It seems that it lost contact then a short while later imploded, so whilst it would've been instantaneous I think they'd had know 'something' was wrong?

It had such a rudimentary communication system that it frequently lost contact, so losing contact was not an unexpected problem.

I saw something yesterday suggesting that the submersible lost contact pretty much every time it went down, which is why the alarm wasn't raised for 8 hours, which was the approximate tour time. Can't remember where I saw that though, so take it with a pinch of salt (might have been on Reddit).

The instantaneous implosion does seem like the least worst way, as sitting in a small tube underwater waiting to run out of air seems horrendous. Very sad either way.

Logitech may be a good buy at the moment, they must be getting a shit load of traffic and are less than half their peak!

I've got a different opinion on the logitech controller. Having tried to build plenty of product prototypes in my time, using off-the-shelf, well-engineered products that are reliable is a great idea. The amount of R&D it would take Titan to produce a better, more reliable controller makes it quite pointless, especially considering they must have tested the logitech controller in the relevant conditions. And it sounds like the controller had nothing to do with the catastrophic failure (presumably of the hull). Using off-the-shelf, well-engineered parts is a great solution unless you've got a open-chequebook wankfest like Jim Cam did.

There was an interesting report on BBC with Jim Cam saying that he found out about Titan going missing on Monday and knew very quickly they were all dead, due to reports of both communications and navigation systems failing, combined with the US Navy registering some kind of noise around the same time. Apparently there was a charade of 'looking' for them which was simply the waiting time for a submersible robot to get to the site and reach the position they last registered at. He reckons they would have found the debris within minutes of that.

Not sure I'd agree Gav.

The controller might be a well engineered product for it's designed purpose. But change that purpose to "Life or Death" and it is no longer fit for purpose.

Yes it had nothing to do with the failure but just because something works well in an office or a bedroom, doesn't mean it should be put to use 12,000 feet down at the bottom of the ocean.

JimCam sounds like a cunt.

dinny_g wrote: Fri Jun 23, 2023 3:00 pm But change that purpose to "Life or Death" and it is no longer fit for purpose.

In a humid, salty, corrosive environment. Is the air inside the sub oxygen-enriched ? I don't suppose it's just normal "air". The extra oxygen will make things corrode a lot faster than on land. So although the controller was (probably) not the cause, it's indicative of not taking the whole thing very seriously, and cutting corners *somewhere* led directly to the death of some high net worth individuals.

dinny_g wrote: Fri Jun 23, 2023 3:00 pm Not sure I'd agree Gav.

The controller might be a well engineered product for it's designed purpose. But change that purpose to "Life or Death" and it is no longer fit for purpose.

Yes it had nothing to do with the failure but just because something works well in an office or a bedroom, doesn't mean it should be put to use 12,000 feet down at the bottom of the ocean.

You'd be surprised where controllers designed for games consoles end up. The US military use xbox controllers to manually control drones.

If you think about it they're perfect. Good ones are engineered to stand 100s if not 1000s of hours of use and you can repair or replace very cheaply.

As I understand it, the observation window was only rated to 1500 feet, they'd already been warned about it after taking the sub to 4000 feet. They were going for 13000 this time.

It was connected by bluetooth (!) - what if the bluetooth hardware controller failed? I wouldn't have gone to the bottom of a swimming pool in that shonky rig!

And at £40 a pop they probably had a spare

dinny_g wrote: Fri Jun 23, 2023 3:00 pm Not sure I'd agree Gav.

The controller might be a well engineered product for it's designed purpose. But change that purpose to "Life or Death" and it is no longer fit for purpose.

Yes it had nothing to do with the failure but just because something works well in an office or a bedroom, doesn't mean it should be put to use 12,000 feet down at the bottom of the ocean.

Those things are designed to be hammered and thrown at the wall, and they could easily take spares in case of a problem. The interior of the vessel operates at comfortable pressure for humans to live in, so aside from any saltiness, those controllers are really not facing anything particularly harsh or difficult.

I'm not defending the overall safety testing of the entire project, however, I bet those controllers would be extremely low down on any list of concerns.

GG. wrote: Fri Jun 23, 2023 3:22 pm It was connected by bluetooth (!) - what if the bluetooth hardware controller failed? I wouldn't have gone to the bottom of a swimming pool in that shonky rig!

That's what I don't get tbh, why would you pay £250k to get in a sub with no due diligence. I just googled the guy and I wouldn't have trusted him to drive me to the shops.

I have a logitec mouse and at least once per day, it doesn't respond. I either have to click the button again, or move it again as the pointer hasn't responded .

That's fine in an office - I just click again. However, if that input is intended move a control surface to avoid a collision, at 12,000 feet then no, it's not good enough.

I’m finding it hard to give much of a shit about the situation to be honest.

Rich people spending lots of money doing something very risky in a heath robinson contraption and getting caught out. Meh. Not nice for those left behind, but you pay your money you take your chance.